Episode 7

#7 Choosing the Right Birth Education Course for You The Matrescence Podcast

In this episode Bree and Kel sit down to discuss their experiences with antenatal education. Kel does her best to recall her experience taking Lamaze classes in the UK before the birth of her first child in 2008. Bree discusses her experience taking her local hospital's antenatal classes before the birth of her first child in 2018 and how she felt they left her frustratingly underprepared for the "natural" birth she envisioned. Subsequently, Bree and Kel talk about their experience taking the Hypnobirthing Australia Positive Birth Program in order to prepare for Bree's upcoming birth. Throughout this conversation we explore the unique benefits and limitations of different styles of antenatal education. This podcast will help to ensure you choose a form of birth education that is most likely to prepare you for a positive and empowered birth –whatever that looks like for you. Themes: Hypnobirthing, Hypnobirthing Australia Positive Birth Program, Lamaze, Hospital Antenatal Classes, Antenatal Education/ Birth Classes, Hospital Birth, Homebirth. 


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[00:00:11] Kelly: [00:00:11] a baby is a defining moment in a woman’s life. 

[00:00:14] Bree: [00:00:14] The birth of a mother that’s right. 

[00:00:17] Kelly: [00:00:17] When a baby is born. So two is a mother. 

[00:00:20] Bree: [00:00:20] This transition from woman to mother has a name it’s called Matrescence. 

[00:00:25] Kelly: [00:00:25] This developmental state is as powerful and irreversible as adolescents, and yet few women have ever heard of it.

[00:00:31] So let’s 

[00:00:32] Bree: [00:00:32] talk about it. 

[00:00:33] Kelly: [00:00:33] Let’s talk about it. Each episode, we will bring you honest and thought provoking conversations, evidence-based research and knowledgeable guests in order to help you emerge a more powerful and aligned version of yourself. So 

[00:00:46] Bree: [00:00:46] join us, your hosts, Kelley and Bree. As we attempt to make sense of Al Matrescence journey.

[00:00:52] And to help you make sense of

[00:01:02] In today’s episode, we talk about two different styles of antenatal education, the standard hospital, birth classes, and independent childbirth classes, specifically the hypnobirthing Australia positive birth program. Our hopes is that by listening to our experiences with these styles of education, you will be able to make a decision that feels right for you and allows you to achieve the kind of birth that you desire.

[00:01:29] Kelly: [00:01:29] Welcome back to today’s podcast. We’re going to be talking about birth education now with my babies being born 12 and 11 years ago, I can honestly say, I don’t remember how good my birth education was. Must’ve been okay. Because when I look back at my birth plan, I was pretty informed and I did do it in London.

[00:01:48] I seem to remember it might’ve been Lamar’s, but I don’t remember much else. So today I’m going to be asking Bray about her experience being much more recent and. It will be in the context of the currently available courses, uh, in this area of Australia and, um, potentially it will be relevant for some other audiences.

[00:02:05] So let’s kick off with Bri. You’ve already experienced two different styles, which gives us a good contrast. Uh, give us an overview of those and we can go from there. 

[00:02:15] Bree: [00:02:15] Cool. So with my first baby in 2018, I gave birth to him in the public system. So I didn’t really know that there was other options available other than the standard hospital birth classes.

[00:02:28] So we opted to do that. I did it with my husband around 28 weeks through our local hospital. And it was offered as a weekend program. So we went for an entire weekend kind of like 10 hour days as well as one week night, which was a session with a women’s pelvic floor physiotherapist, which was actually very handy.

[00:02:48] Um, and so from memory, these costs about $200. So they were a considerable investment in both times time and money. Um, and as I will go into, I don’t feel that it was. Money, well spent for me personally. So do you want me to start with that experience? 

[00:03:06] Kelly: [00:03:06] I think so. I mean, the alternative is that this time around you have gone private, we’ll go into the details of what that looks like, but was that first experience which made you realize that you wanted to go searching for 

[00:03:19] Bree: [00:03:19] something else?

[00:03:20] Yeah. So. The main problem I had with the hospital antenatal classes were that I felt that they were very general in nature. So we covered things, um, ranging from pain relief to where to park at the hospital, what the bathroom looked like, what to expect from a C-section. Um, All the way to, how to swaddle and breastfeeding.

[00:03:44] So it was a lot jam packed into one weekend and very much tip of the iceberg for all of those things. So we didn’t go into great detail about anything, but specifically I barely remember them even mentioning what we associate with natural childbirth. So undisturbed, physiological childbirth, which going into my birth, that was what I was hoping for.

[00:04:06] And at the time I didn’t realize that that was not the norm. That was not how women were giving birth in the hospital. So it makes sense knowing the stats that I know now that this is not what the class catered to. 

[00:04:21] Kelly: [00:04:21] That’s such an interesting point, because I do think that there is an element of. Going into a birth, just assuming that you’re going to have a normal vaginal birth and not realizing the realities of what will more than likely be I the, the boundaries in the hospital and how that will affect the outcome.

[00:04:44] But that, that is a different discussion. But I think what’s key in that was almost this assumption that that was all, that was like, that’s what you did. You went to the. Cost at the hospital. Yeah, 

[00:04:54] Bree: [00:04:54] it did. And so, so when we look at the statistics, roughly around 45% of women are in juiced, I think our C-section statistics are about 30% instrumental births is about 25%.

[00:05:07] So when we look at the women that are attending these childbirth classes, statistically, most of them are going to. End up with intervention. And so I think our rates for physiological birth are about one to 3%. So very tiny. And my guess is that most of these occur outside of the hospital. So it makes sense that they are teaching a class that prepares women for the outcomes that they can expect in this setting.

[00:05:33] And now I do think that that is helpful in a way, because if we were preparing women for physiological birth, then when inevitably they encounter. Intervention, they’re unprepared for that 

[00:05:45] Kelly: [00:05:45] out of curiosity, at any point in that, did someone say to you, Oh, you know, are you looking for a natural birth? And if, when you said yes, do they sort of indicate 

[00:05:55] Bree: [00:05:55] not at all?

[00:05:56] I don’t remember them discussing any. Any, um, techniques or tools to manage pain. And the one question I did ask along those lines is if I was to end up with a C-section, how do you accommodate a gentle mother centered C-section and I just got to, essentially, we don’t, we don’t do clear drapes. We don’t do immediate skin to skin and that might’ve changed since then, but I, it, it kind of shut that conversation down, like, Oh, we do it, how we do it.

[00:06:26] So, yeah. I want to point out that not all hospital classes are going to be the same. There isn’t a standardized standardization across what that looks like. It’s going to depend on who wrote the course who is teaching the course, what the hospital policies and what a normal birth is in that setting. But overall, I think that it prepares you for the kind of birth that you can expect to have.

[00:06:49] In the system and there’s nothing wrong with that. If that is the kind of birth you desire, then potentially you’re going to get what you need from those classes. But it’s not what I wanted. It’s not what I hoped for. And I didn’t prepare me for drug-free childbirth. So what inevitably happened is that when I went into labor, I immediately realized how unprepared I was.

[00:07:11] And whether you were planning to get an epidural or use other pain relief or not, there is going to be a period of time there where you are on your own. You might go into labor spontaneously at home and have a transfer to hospital in the car and without any tools or techniques to manage that pain. And for my husband to support me, we felt completely out of our depth and unable to cope.

[00:07:35] And that was kind of where. My bath, just kind of derailed. 

[00:07:39] Kelly: [00:07:39] There’s another interesting sideline there, because some of the conversations I’m having now with people in my life is that I want to have a normal physiological birth, but we were often not seeing the gaps. So we’re going to the birth classes.

[00:07:55] We’re hearing all of this, but it’s almost like not knowing what question to ask. So only after having been through the experience you were then. It quit to say, these are now the questions I want to ask next time. And you were getting to know each other. Now listeners and Bree has a lot of questions, which is really powerful because half the problem is not knowing what questions to ask.

[00:08:16] So that first birth weekend and the other irony before you go on to private classes is. There is almost nothing important we do in our lives. That doesn’t take more than a little bit of effort, study, time and investment, even getting a driver’s license. You know, you do study, you have a test, you practice something, you have another test where you going to having a baby after doing one weekend.

[00:08:41] Sometimes not now, there is an argument that, you know, in an, in the nature, we innately know how to mother, the problem is we’re not living in nature. We’re living inside of a society and a system and a process. So being able to understand what sort of tools and knowledge you need to navigate 

[00:09:03] Bree: [00:09:03] that. I think so too.

[00:09:05] And I think that I went into my first birth with that perspective. Like my body was designed to give birth, but our bodies are designed to give birth in a dark cave, supported by women who have experienced childbirth without monitoring. And if they’re not the conditions you’re birthing in, let’s be honest.

[00:09:21] There’s two ways then. We need to know the barriers to achieving that kind of birth. And there are a lot. And as you said, you don’t know what you don’t know. So I left those classes feeling really great. I thought it was, it well prepared us for the experience. Um, and it wasn’t until after I gave birth and started to unpack that experience, that I was able to say that.

[00:09:44] It wasn’t that my body had, let me down in any way it’s that I wasn’t prepared. And I think in the past, we usually would have acquired this knowledge through conversation with other women who had given birth in the way that we wanted to. And as I said, with the rights of physiological birth being so low, it’s hard to find somebody that has.

[00:10:05] Birthed in that way without monitoring and interventions. So we’ve just lost that sharing. And I think that that’s where birth education comes in to replace that. And as you said, you don’t know what you don’t know, so it can help 

[00:10:16] Kelly: [00:10:16] fill that scrap. Unfortunately, those stories often field with the, the horror stories and the not great stories of which there are a lot, and there’s a lot of trauma around that, but 

[00:10:26] Bree: [00:10:26] that’s it time and place for sharing those, but with new moms, well preparing for childbirth.

[00:10:31] Probably 

[00:10:31] Kelly: [00:10:31] not, probably not the best audience. No, that’s right. That’s an unpacking trauma with people who are equipped to deal with that as opposed to the scare tactics. But so that then leads us to this time around. Yeah. Tell me about your plan and process. So 

[00:10:47] Bree: [00:10:47] my birth was ultimately quite positive, but it wasn’t empowering and it was not what I wanted.

[00:10:52] And then that was, um, proceeded by a postpartum experience, which left me questioning if I was. Going to have more kids. And if I would be ready at any stage to go through that process again, and that’s definitely enough that another episode in itself, but in order to prepare myself for another baby and entertain that idea, it required me to work through my first experience and really to start to think about what I wanted to do differently next time.

[00:11:22] And for me, I had to think about those things prior to it. Even falling, pregnant, how I would manage pregnancy differently and birth and postpartum so that when I did get pregnant and was in the intensity of that experience where you’re working two timelines, that I was already going into it, knowing what I wanted.

[00:11:43] And so that’s what I did. So before I even fell pregnant, I knew I wanted to do independent childbirth education and. Honestly, I didn’t do a lot of research. No birthing Australia came highly recommended. I’d seen it spoken about on. Forums, um, and heard of people using it with really positive results. So I didn’t naturally just decided to go with that one.

[00:12:05] And so I think I was maybe about, gosh, no more than six or eight weeks pregnant. When I contacted a hypnobirthing practitioner, specifically, Danielle who runs your sacred space hypnobirthing, um, Out of Brisbane. And I connected with her. We had a phone conversation where we talked about what my first birth was like, what I was hoping to do differently this time and what I felt I needed from the education.

[00:12:33] And so that was quite specific being that I was now a midwifery student and had some, had a much greater knowledge of the birth process. And I did first time round. And also that I was planning to give birth at home. And so by virtue of that meant that. I was going to rely on my team a lot more to help me require, help me achieve the kind of birth that I decided because in hospital, if you have, if you’re unable to cope with the pain, or if you have a really long Labour or a crisis of confidence, then generally that’s managed with pain relief.

[00:13:09] And knowing that that wasn’t an option for me, I knew that I would have to really lean on my birth team. And so I decided that I would like all of us to take the program together. Um, and Danielle very much agreed and thought that that would be fantastic. So we decided to go ahead with private classes as opposed to the group classes so that, uh, you, as my doula could attend, my husband could attend.

[00:13:35] And also my mom, so that we could all. Get on board and understand what birth we were working towards and all have the same tools and techniques to support me. 

[00:13:47] Kelly: [00:13:47] Yeah. And there’s so much in there that we will need to talk about it in the future, but one of the things that’s really. Interesting between first and second births is we go into our first birth, not thinking we will need anything else.

[00:14:03] Then often there is this misalignment of expectation. There’s a shock factor. It’s like, wow, I wasn’t equipped. I didn’t have the support in it, et cetera. This time around working with the four of us in that cause. And you know, it was such a great experience for me. A lot of it is about how the team works together.

[00:14:20] What are the roles? How do we get to know each other? How do we understand what you want? And it’s that whole having a conversation with everyone in the room is hearing things at the same time. That is just as powerful because that’s one of the great things about the private classes is they are very focused on the couple, the team.

[00:14:39] They look at that. The roles and working with them, certainly the one we had experienced with, as opposed to more like running through a checklist, do you know how to swaddle the baby tick? You know, do you understand how, what drugs will be available to you? Yes. Do you know what you know when to call on the epidural?

[00:14:55] Yes. So it’s more. It is more tailored. And even in the group sessions where you have multiple couples together, there is a lot of focus on the relationship between the birthing mother and the people around her, which has a huge effect on your experience of birth. 

[00:15:12] Bree: [00:15:12] Yeah. And I think that. Something that Danielle did incredibly well was teach the program and make sure she covered her core, the core elements.

[00:15:21] And there are definitely core elements of that program, but also allowing for us to have discussions between us about, Oh, well, hang on Bray. What did you think that this would look like? Is that what you’re hoping for? And also tailoring it to. This you may need, we may need to talk about this further if you were giving birth in hospital, but being that you’re planning a home birth, let’s spend more time on this component.

[00:15:44] And. I think I’m very open to how our plans might change. So we totally covered, um, hospital transfers and things like that, but it was very much tailored to what I needed from the experience. And the main thing I needed was tools and techniques to cope with pain and manage pain. Um, and just for my to feel like my team got it.

[00:16:07] And, and we were all on the same page because ideally when I go home, When I am giving birth, when I’m in labor, you will all work interchangeably. So if my mom’s primarily there to support my little boy, but if he wants his dad will then potentially. Matt can go and look after our little boy and someone else can step in and do these techniques.

[00:16:28] So it was about as much about getting tools and techniques as figuring out what our dynamic is going to look like and how we can use that to our advantage. 

[00:16:37] Kelly: [00:16:37] Yeah. And even just out of interest, you use the word pain, a number of times there, and this is something that’s quite different. Some are controversial.

[00:16:45] Some people don’t like the use of the word. Pain. Um, they feel that it’s better to use the intensity and the surges and, and these language. Now language is very important to you. Tell me why you like using the word pain or you find it represents your experience? 

[00:17:02] Bree: [00:17:02] Yeah, it’s interesting because I know that the hypnobirthing program does not speak about pain in those terms.

[00:17:08] And I do think that Labour pain is. A different kind of pain to what we generally associate that sensation with. So I think it’s important. We can make that distinction. But for me personally, I was caught off guard by how painful Labour was once before. And I don’t want that to happen again. I want to be prepared that I can do all the techniques and the meditations and have all the tools and it still might be incredibly painful because for some women it is.

[00:17:37] And so for me, it feels. Like important preparation to know that it may be painful. And if it is that’s okay, I’m prepared for this it’s functional pain. It’s working towards something it’s normal. It’s not a reason to panic, which in my first birth, I very much felt like. Pain was a sign that something is wrong because generally it is that’s what pain is there for.

[00:18:01] So kind of rewriting that narrative and reminding myself that, you know, I’ve run a half marathon and that was painful, but I wasn’t worried that I would, that something was wrong. It was a part of the process. I worked through it and it allowed me to achieve something. And so framing pain in that context for birth feels right to me.

[00:18:19] And it may not be right for other people, but. I think that, you know, you need to work out, what’s going to work to your advantage. 

[00:18:27] Kelly: [00:18:27] Absolutely. Yeah. And it is about that being in touch with understanding and your body, because as you say, when you’re exercising very heavily doing a half marathon or an adventure race, uh, you know, I’ve done tough Mudder and.

[00:18:41] Excellent. Perfect. Perfect example. So there’s elements of that, which are painful. You know, I remember one of them is you’re running through wet, running through, and it’s electrocuting you. I mean, who comes up with these six stuff? Who does them is the question so there’s pain, but yeah. You’re right. There was a distinction.

[00:18:58] There was a line of, I mean, it’s pain, but I don’t think something’s fundamentally wrong. I’ve also been in a situation when exercising, when you actually injure yourself. And there’s a moment where you click over a new site, this isn’t functional pain, this is now injury. So staying and remaining in touch with your body, but being prepared that there is going to be pain through the process for you was helpful because.

[00:19:22] You weren’t just, Oh, it’s just surges. You’re like, I know it’s going to be intense and I’m doing everything I can to prepare for managing 

[00:19:30] Bree: [00:19:30] that intensity. Yeah. And it’s much like a half marathon, you know, like I did everything I could to prepare for that race and it’s still frigging hurt a lot. And I think that that’s part of my wider approach to this birth and what Danielle facilitated incredibly well.

[00:19:46] Yeah. Was, you know, she said to me, I know that you’re planning a home birth and some women don’t like to entertain any other outcomes because they feel like they don’t want to give energy to that. What do you want? And I know that I’m only 50% of the team giving birth. My baby has a say in how that process unfolds and.

[00:20:06] While I’m doing everything right. To prepare for a home birth, things can change and things happen and that’s just life. So again, I felt that if I boxed myself into this is exactly how this is going to go. I’m not going to feel pain. I’m going to have a home birth. Then when things don’t go to plan, I think the wheels would have just fallen off because I hadn’t anticipated it.

[00:20:27] And so I think that. Again, it’s knowing yourself. And that’s the benefit of having independent childbirth education, not just doing the private courses. I believe you’d really get these from the group courses as well is being able to tailor it to your own experience and, um, having those built-in components of reflection.

[00:20:48] That was something that was not a part of our hospital birth classes was. Have you thought about this, you know, what are you hoping for? What are your fears and that psychological work around birth, because it’s not just a medically managed process, it’s a physical and emotional and mental and spiritual experience.

[00:21:07] And I think that when we only address one of those elements, we would kind of miss the whole 

[00:21:11] Kelly: [00:21:11] point. So that’s such a crux point in this conversation is that it is not just a physical process of a baby emerging from your body. It is that transition.  With that comes letting go of fears, letting go of ideas about yourself, about how you should, could, would, and really doing some inner work around that.

[00:21:34] The problem is we don’t often discuss that. And actually we were joking around in our chat before this, about, you know, ideally it would start in sex education in high school, which is thinking about what are the things that you’re taking with you from your life so far? How do you view. Parenthood. How do you view healthy relationships?

[00:21:56] How do you view, you know, parenting? How, what, what is it that stories that you have about pregnancy? And ideally, I would love that, you know, the moment you find out pregnant, You’re pregnant. You sign up and once a week you do a drop-in class, 30 minutes a week. I mean, we 

[00:22:11] Bree: [00:22:11] would, your weekend is grossly and one weekend 

[00:22:15] Kelly: [00:22:15] and learned to do all the work and preparation and understand what physically might happen.

[00:22:20] So, you know, we go and, you know, your mum plays netball once a week. I used to play volleyball once a week. We will do sport on a regular rhythm and cadence. But yet we do our birth courses in one day, 

[00:22:32] Bree: [00:22:32] one weekend. Yeah. And I think that the reason for that is that we kind of have this belief and we have been told that we don’t have much control over our birth.

[00:22:41] So what is the point in investing in it? You wouldn’t, and again, that’s the difference I found between the hospital courses and the independent course is that. You were told that you got a say in it, you’ve got to say in a process, you can’t control it, but you do get to control specific things that can meaningfully impact the outcome of your birth.

[00:23:05] Whereas, um, just even things like knowing about informed consent, that wasn’t something that was. Mentioned in our hospital course was that you had the right to decline a procedure that didn’t even occur to me. And that was the part that was built into the positive birth program with hypnobirthing Australia is knowing your rights and what does informed consent involve.

[00:23:27] And so again, I think it’s just reminding women that we do get a say in this process, But in order to have a say, we need to be educated and informed and empowered, and there are many ways that you can get to that point. But. Doing an antenatal education course kind of just streamlines it instead of having to seek out your own information and determine, is it good information?

[00:23:52] Is it valid? Is it based on evidence? Someone has already done that for you? So if you can find a good course, it just like reduces some of the mental load of preparing for birth. It’s not the only way, but it’s certainly a really great way to do it. Yeah, 

[00:24:08] Kelly: [00:24:08] absolutely. 

[00:24:11] Bree: [00:24:11] Where to from here. So where 

[00:24:14] Kelly: [00:24:14] is the, if you have the desire to look for an independent childbirth education, cause where do we even start?

[00:24:23] I mean, obviously everyone can go searching on the internet, but you found out through reading forums, blogs, et cetera. What. Is the range of options currently available in gear. And what’s the sort of price range we’re talking about. 

[00:24:37] Bree: [00:24:37] That’s a good question. And we are actually going to get Danielle on the podcast.

[00:24:42] So hopefully she’ll be able to help answer some of these questions, but to, for the private classes, I paid $800. And I do believe though, I’m not positive that hypnobirthing practitioners get to set that price. I don’t believe it’s standard across. All classes. Um, but that is obviously considerably more than doing it in a group setting and to offset that cost you and my mum generally generously chipped in and helped us to afford that.

[00:25:09] So that was fantastic though. I was completely prepared to outlay that because, you know, I spend considerably more of that on my wedding, more than that on my wedding. Um, and. Yeah, it was an investment that I was prepared to make either way. Um, in terms of what courses are offered, the three main ones that I hear spoken about a lot in Australia are calm birth.

[00:25:32] She births and hypnobirthing. I think if you’re out in the U S the Bradley method is a big one, and I think Lamar’s is still quite big across the UK and the U S um, but in Australia, they’re the main three. And I don’t know the difference between the three of them, as he said, I was part of a Facebook forums, specifically the home birth Australia group, I believe it’s called.

[00:25:56] And I just kept tabs on that and kept seeing people re recommend it and share their experience and that, you know, that feedback gave me the confidence that this would be the right course for me. Um, and while we haven’t had a chance to. Put it to good use yet. I think that one of the unexpected benefits that has come from it already is getting to, um, getting to connect with my husband because a big part of the hypnobirthing, I guess, philosophy is that like you get back what you put in, so you don’t do the course and go home.

[00:26:34] As we did with the hospital courses, we go home and have work to do. And it’s practicing tools and techniques and meditation and working through fears. And so I’m still in that part of the process now where I’m doing that work and I’m feeling more prepared and more empowered, but also it’s just been so lovely to have a reason to sit down at the end of the night and connect with my husband and do that together because for me, pregnancy is a time where I feel really disconnected from him.

[00:27:08] Um, You know, so much is changing and your body’s changing and your, you know, very much in your head about what’s to come. And so to just spend 20 minutes doing a mindfulness meditation and having him do light touch massage, and yeah. So my cup in that way has been so beautiful. And if we don’t get to use the techniques at Olin birth, I’d be really glad we did it still.

[00:27:32] Kelly: [00:27:32] And I don’t want to steal Danielle’s thunder, but that’s one of the biggest turnarounds that she talked to us about because I drilled her a little bit with lots of questions about it. Cause I was very interested is the, you know, the reluctant husbands partners, et cetera, who come, you know, sort of, uh, not unwillingly, but let’s just say.

[00:27:53] It wasn’t their choice. And then they actually buy into it because the course is directed at both. It’s not directed just at mothers. It’s actually talks through an inclusive of the fathers role or whoever the birth partner that gets bought along. Let’s be honest. Yeah. It’s inclusive. 

[00:28:13] Bree: [00:28:13] It’s and it’s not just token inclusion.

[00:28:15] It’s really integrated into the process. I think it really empowers men beautifully to know that they actually do get to participate. And they’re a really important part of this birth. They’re not just a passive bystander that they have the ability to influence what this experience is like for their partner.

[00:28:35] Is. Such an important part of the program. And I don’t think my husband’s quite there yet. I don’t, you know, Danielle spoke a lot about, um, you know, men being converted and I don’t think he’s there yet, but my hope is very much that. Once the birth is said and done, he will be able to reflect on it and be like, Oh, I get it now because he emerged from my first birth, it feeling traumatized and we had a positive birth.

[00:29:01] I had a, um, like an eight hour vaginal birth with minimal complications. But because he was so unprepared for what to expect and had no way to support me. He emerged like shellshocked puking in the garden, um, by what he had just witnessed. And I think that after this experience and seeing how it has influenced what that looks like, he will get it and he’ll go, okay, I see the value and.

[00:29:36] At the moment, he’s like, I’m, I’m glad we did that. Supports me to do what I feel is right. To prepare for this birth. But I think that he’s gonna feel that value for himself once it’s all said and done. 

[00:29:47] Kelly: [00:29:47] Yeah. And look, one, we talk a lot about how do we get the information to first-time moms from the second time moms and third time moms and four time moms, because what we know going in to the second birth is vastly different and it’s the same for dads.

[00:30:01] And I spoke briefly to Anthony about it. Yeah, Alpha’s birth. And he was the same. He tells a story about leaving the hospital and just feeling absolutely destroyed. Like he had nothing left. I felt great. And I sent him home and he slept for something like 14, 15 hours straight. And then by then it was like, where are you?

[00:30:19] Come back to the hospital? But he just crashed. And he was exhausted and traumatized. And then our second birth, because he knew what to expect and he knew what I needed from him. That was a totally. And he actually used the word the other day. He said it was a beautiful experience. And I was like, really?

[00:30:37] You’ve never said that before it was such, so it was really healing for us to talk back through it. So I think part of what hypnobirthing does is it takes a collection of stories and information from multiple births and brings it in, in a really gentle and inclusive way. And also because Danielle and, you know, I don’t know how many other practitioners, but many of the practitioners will be parents themselves and will have come to this.

[00:31:03] Korea or live through this desperate, want to share this information? And so it’s a, it’s a, let’s just say that you don’t become a childbirth educator for them just for the money. Okay. I think this is something which people do because they’re passionate about it because this is what they want to do is share and deliver this information.

[00:31:22] And that’s another important part about your decision. The hospital education classes are designed around the hospital process. Correct. And that’s not wrong. It’s just business it’s business. Right. So in our hospital, this is the way things are going to roll. So here’s how you get we’re paid 

[00:31:41] Bree: [00:31:41] for that. Yes.

[00:31:42] And there’s a, there’s an element of conditioning there. Yeah. Because it eases it, it streamline it and streamlines it for the hospital. And, you know, I don’t want to suggest that it’s malicious or anything like that. But I think that when we’re doing independent education aid is just to benefit us. And I think the other thing that’s really important is that we clear up misconceptions about hypnobirthing, because we were talking about earlier that I believed going into my first birth, that hypnobirthing was very way, way.

[00:32:13] I was not into meditation or mindfulness. And I also had this idea that. I want to be present for my birth and hypnobirthing would be 

[00:32:24] Kelly: [00:32:24] hypnotized with it, 

[00:32:27] Bree: [00:32:27] which sounds so bizarre, but I can’t be the only one who thought that 

[00:32:32] Kelly: [00:32:32] the name is a little bit leading actually, but because although it uses techniques and it’s, I think it’s like NLP neuro-linguistic programming.

[00:32:42] Like you’ve got such a bad name, but actually if you boil it down, the techniques are incredibly useful for. You know, redesigning behaviors and 

[00:32:52] Bree: [00:32:52] yeah. And if you look around the world, all of out top people in every field are using meditation and mindfulness, like our athletes and in business. And it’s very much integrated into peak performance.

[00:33:04] So while we associated that with something, with it being quite high, quite hippy and woo, woo. It’s actually just a performance tool. And I think once I understood that it made sense to me, um, And I think that it’s a huge barrier to people choosing to do hypnobirthing courses is just the misconception around who uses it and what it does.

[00:33:29] Um, but ultimately it’s, it’s a program in empowerment and information and relaxation, and I am very passionate about evidence-based information. It is. My bread and butter. And there was nothing. I came across in the course where I was like, Oh, I don’t know about that one. Like it all affirmed to me things that I already knew and believed, and that will well supported by research.

[00:33:52] So that gave me really confident, a lot of confidence in that course, and that I was getting the information that I needed. 

[00:34:00] Kelly: [00:34:00] So finally we did talk briefly about the investment. One thing that I just, I want to, I’m not going to be, I know that not everyone’s going to have the financial resources to do private education.

[00:34:12] What I would say to you is that like everything in the world today, there is a lot of amazing free information out there, as well as. Fantastic painful courses. What if, if you take nothing else away from this conversation, it is that not to settle. Don’t just settle for what is provided to you by your care provider.

[00:34:33] As with everything, do your research. I do not know a single person who has not looked at at least five prams. Before buying a prem. 

[00:34:41] Bree: [00:34:41] Yeah. Well, an interesting comparison is our premise brought for us by my mom, but it costs about the same as what I paid for the private education classes. And one of those is gonna change my life a lot more than the other.

[00:34:56] That’s right. And you know, 

[00:34:57] Kelly: [00:34:57] there’s this, again, this thing in your head where you’re like, yeah, but with a pram, you can use it for a long time. But we then taking away from what we actually get from them, the course, and from investing that money. So I would encourage you to, you know, if you haven’t done a budget for what you think you’re going to spend on equipment for having a baby 80% of what you buy, will you live without, I can guarantee that straight off the bat.

[00:35:20] It’s nice to have beacon me without I would question, can you live without. Adequate preparation for this most important transition in your life. So please do think about that investment and what you’re willing to invest. 

[00:35:32] Bree: [00:35:32] Yeah. And I think that, you know, I’m now 32 weeks pregnant and. We have prepared nothing for this baby at all, because all of our time and funds and mental energy has been put into preparing me for birth and Parenthood and postpartum.

[00:35:48] And as a result, we have one crib, which we brought secondhand us Gumtree for $50 last week, because I started to get that nesting vibe. And I was like, Oh my God, we’ve got nothing prepared. We’ve got to buy him something for the, something for the baby to sleep in. Um, But we have nothing else because that is where we have invested.

[00:36:10] And part of that is knowing second time around again. What, what really babies need is a healthy mom and investing in childbirth education gives you the best chance I believe of being emerging from your birth physically and psychologically. Well, and that’s going to give you the stop to parenting that you need and the rest you can figure out on the fly, like you can send your husband.

[00:36:34] To big w to buy a baby bath on day seven, you know, you can figure it out, but you only get one opportunity to birth in the way you want to and need to, to start that journey off. Right? 

[00:36:44] Kelly: [00:36:44] Absolutely. And I bought my first child in a bucket in the sink in London because we didn’t have space for a baby box.

[00:36:51] So there you go. 

[00:36:52] Bree: [00:36:52] Yeah, you can get creative. We can figure these things out. 

[00:36:56] Kelly: [00:36:56] Excellent. So thanks for sharing your birth education stories today. Uh, please do let us know. In the feedback, if you want to see a weekly course, uh, That was just a random idea today, but tell us what you think, what is missing from birth education?

[00:37:11] What are the opportunities there for us to provide more information for you? Because this is such an important transition in your life, and there’s already, I know lots of amazing content. 

[00:37:22] Bree: [00:37:22] Great. Thanks.

[00:37:26] Kelly: [00:37:26] Thanks for joining us for today’s conversation. If you want to eat more like this, don’t forget to hit subscribe. So you don’t miss an episode. If you’d like to learn more about anything we talked about or you’ve heard on the podcast today, check out our website, http://www.birthofthemother.com. You can find us on Instagram at Matrescence dot podcast, or send us an email to intern@birthofamother.com.

[00:37:51] Bree: [00:37:51] If you think of this. Could benefit from this podcast. Take a screenshot of me listening to this episode, to post on your social media and tag us. Alternatively, consider leaving a review with your favorite things about the Matrescence. This really helps us to increase our visibility and ensure we are reaching as many women as possible as always thank you for spending your time with us.

[00:38:12] We hope you will chin in and next time.

Kelly and Bree


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