Episode 3

#3 Breastfeeding: Anecdotes and True Stories The Matrescence Podcast

Join Kelly and Bree as they remember and share their breastfeeding journeys as Bree contemplates doing it all again with her second child on the way.  Among the funny stories and personal accounts are nuggets of knowledge to help prospective and new mothers with what no-one really tell you about breastfeeding, especially when you just don’t know what you don’t know.They touch on the challenges of learning a new skill, the changes your body goes through and even donating milk to others. There is so much information and yet there are so many things no one tells you, Kelly and Bree will take you through their stories in the hope of offering ideas and solidarity for a complex process through honest and funny storytelling.Key Themes: Breastfeeding, Milk, Donating Milk, Post partum Bodies. Drinking while breastfeeding, let down, Nipples, Changing bodies, Sex while breastfeeding, Linea Nigra,


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Kelly: [00:00:00] The birth of a baby is a defining moment in a woman’s life. 

[00:00:15] Bree: [00:00:15] But what about the birth of a mother? That’s 

[00:00:18] Kelly: [00:00:18] right when a baby is born. So two is a mother. This 

[00:00:21] Bree: [00:00:21] transition from woman to mother has a name it’s called Matrescence. 

[00:00:26] Kelly: [00:00:26] This developmental is as powerful and irreversible as adolescents, and yet few women have ever heard of it.

[00:00:33] So let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it. Each episode, we will bring you honest and thought provoking conversations, evidence-based research and knowledgeable guests in order to help you emerge and more powerful and aligned version of yourself. So join 

[00:00:48] Bree: [00:00:48] us, your hosts, Kelley and Bree, as we attempt to make sense of Al Matrescence journey and to help you make sense of yours.

[00:01:01] Kelly: [00:01:01] Good morning, this is Bree and Kelly back again for another podcast session. Uh, we have been on a break for a week or so, and. The purpose of today is to get back on the horse and have some more of our really interesting discussions. And it’s been a really great time of reflection about what do we want to talk about?

[00:01:20] What have we learned? And we’re going to dive in today to a topic around breastfeeding, however, as always, we want to give you context about time and space and where we’re at. So Bree, why don’t you give us a little summary about where you’re at in your journey? And then we can leave that back to the discussion tonight.

[00:01:37] Bree: [00:01:37] Yeah. So has been a really big part of my Parenthood journey. Um, I’m not currently breastfeeding being that I’m eight weeks pregnant and my little boy is now two and a half. Um, so I’m kind of on a break between breastfeeding, which is nice. Um, and I guess on a. When talking about this podcast, we’re kind of in a, quite a transitional transformational stage.

[00:01:59] We’re still very much working out, you know, why we’re here, what, what we’re about and what we want to share with everybody. So Kelly and I have been having a lot of conversations this week about what direction feels good for us. Um, and we haven’t totally figured that out yet, but we’re not going to be deterred by it.

[00:02:16] And in the meantime, we want to just keep putting our thoughts down and recording content and we’ll figure it out along the way. Hmm, 

[00:02:24] Kelly: [00:02:24] because these conversations are coming from a position of, we’re not saying whether your authority, we’re not saying this is right or wrong. We’re actually wanting to open up topics that we know that there’s a lot of information on.

[00:02:35] But we want people to make decisions that’s right for them. And we hope through telling of some of our stories, our anecdotes, and what we have done research on that might not some fresh ideas for you. And, you know, breastfeeding is a very wide topic. So in some ways our personal experiences and our thoughts as you go into another phase of breastfeeding, um, is a great conversation starter.

[00:02:59] Yeah. And 

[00:03:00] Bree: [00:03:00] I think that there is so much information out there on this topic. And I think some of our podcasts previously have been more educational, more informative because I think we’re really passionate about that, you know, researching and learning and gathering the information and reflecting on that.

[00:03:14] And I think that that’s really important, but this is, um, topic where I think sometimes it can just help to share our experiences and the funny stories and the. Yeah, struggles along the way. And, um, there’s lots of funny ones, Kel shared with me, um, some great graphic imagery of your breastfeeding journey.

[00:03:34] Um, and while that’s quite in the past fee now, being that it’s been. Like the best part of a decade for you, but it’s still, it’s still fresh and it’s still a part of your story. And, uh, I’m looking forward to hearing what you have to share on that. Um, 

[00:03:47] Kelly: [00:03:47] and that, I mean, that in itself is one of those things there’s so much, um, that is of a haze through motherhood, but funnily enough, there’s some, always some really vivid memories and breastfeeding does, uh, fill some of those.

[00:04:00] And I guess we kick this off with the concept of the things. No one told me, because if you look on videos, One of my, you know, probably to kick this off. One of my hilarious things that I often tell new mothers is they, one of the first things that you’ll learn is they say, you know, make sure that you squeeze the nipple and it goes to the roof of the mouth, or certainly that’s what they told me a decade ago.

[00:04:21] And I remember looking down and thinking my nipples bigger than the babies. Hey, how am I going to fit that inside of his mouth? Because no one tells you that. 

[00:04:30] Bree: [00:04:30] Can’t really be dark and puffy. 

[00:04:34] Kelly: [00:04:34] So not only was I struggling to work out how to fit at the inside of his mouth, I’m digging, it’s bigger than his head.

[00:04:39] And I actually had to have some photos where I’m like, look, see, see the size of the nipple, see the size of the 

[00:04:43] Bree: [00:04:43] baby’s head. Yeah. You want me to put that in there? And that’s one of my earliest. Pregnancy symptoms. I actually said to my husband the other day, I’m like, look at them, they’re back. They’re getting dark and puffy and it’s very glamorous.

[00:04:58] Um, but yeah, you get plenty of advice along the way and get this so much that no one tells you. And I’m like, why didn’t anyone mention this? Like, am I the only one who’s having this problem or things like that. So we’ve got plenty of things down. I wasn’t able to. Compile just five or 10 short and sharp ones.

[00:05:17] We’ll just see where it goes. 

[00:05:18] Kelly: [00:05:18] I think the storytelling is more important than the list and as with everything, the most important thing is that we, you have no idea what’s going to happen to your body, honestly. So what’s the most important thing to say is. It’s going to change and it’ll change in a way that’s slightly different to the person next to you because there’s so much of our body, you know, even the concept of things going down, whether some people get the line on the belly, how dark their nipples go.

[00:05:42] Even the color of your vagina changes. That’s another conversation, but it does the point being that at least someone saying to you, just be aware that your body will change. And for the most part it’s normal and. You know, there’s always a situation where someone’s going to have a change that isn’t normal and needs to get assistance.

[00:06:00] I get that, but most of all, someone’s sitting you down and saying it’s okay. When things start to change. It’s okay. And who do you have to have that discussion with too? Make you feel that you’re able to talk through things. And so breastfeeding has a lot of things surrounding the fact that ultimately what you’re trying to do is transfer milk from your body, into your baby to nourish it.

[00:06:24] And that’s, although that’s what breastfeeding is it? Doesn’t at all capture the experience. Yes, 

[00:06:30] Bree: [00:06:30] absolutely. And I think that this is a conversation that is relevant to people who maybe choose to feed for a day, a week, a year. Um, Uh, we can obviously only share from our perspective. So I did feed my little boy for just over two years.

[00:06:46] Um, but many of these changes are gonna happen to you, regardless of whether you choose to feed breast milk or formula, um, whether you feed for a week or a month or a year, your body is going to go through these changes and you’re going to have to grapple with the emotions and feelings that come with that.

[00:07:01] Um, and I actually wrote an Instagram post on this. Uh, going back a couple of months, I think it was on world breastfeeding day. And just talking about what a struggle that was to shift between seeing my breasts is something that was. That with immense pleasure too, for a baby’s nourishment. And I was only 22 when I had my little boys.

[00:07:22] So I very much felt like I was, you know, in my sexual prime. Like that was a, a good time for me. And, um, it was a real struggle to make that shift and it didn’t just happen naturally without any apprehension. So, um, There is a lot of complex emotions that comes with the choice to breastfeed or not breastfeed.

[00:07:44] Okay. Yeah. 

[00:07:45] Kelly: [00:07:45] And there’s so many important points in what you said there, because even if your choice is that not to breastfeed? Yeah. Or if your body is not producing enough milk, because there are scenarios all the way on the spectrum of not enough milk to, I have too much milk, but. Either way the body is going through changes, which you can’t control.

[00:08:07] So whatever you decide, whatever your choice is, to some extent your body has a bit of a life of its own. So if you incredibly progress, but didn’t really want that for yourself. Unfortunately for some women, their bodies will not meet their expectations. And so that expectation gap can be part of, but that journey we have to go into letting go of our fears, letting go of what we decide.

[00:08:30] And it’s an understanding that sometimes everybody’s have other ideas. And you know, for me personally, I had too much milk. I had a lot of milk. Yeah, me too. And that caused a whole nother set of things. We mean, there’s often discussion about, you know, leaking breasts and there’s a bunch of things. Nobody tells you about that.

[00:08:50] Um, and, and some funny stories around that was, you know, I had a lot of milk. Which caused some challenges in my feeding, because I actually thought I was drowning my eldest son, because he was constantly gagging on the fact that milk was pouring out. But also, um, you know, when I did want to become intimate, uh, during that period, because you do feel like you want to be seen as a woman, not just a.

[00:09:14] You know, cleaning up machine. Yeah. Then your breasts are also stimulated by the same hormones. And so therefore milk comes out at inconvenient times, like in the middle of 

[00:09:26] Bree: [00:09:26] lovemaking. And I’ve got a little tip in here, which I’ll share later on for that, because I had to learn the hard way. Um, my boobs definitely had a life of their own and their own agenda, and I was just kind of like an unwilling bystander.

[00:09:39] Um, but I wanted to start at the very beginning because it’s. There’s so much here and I thought it might be helpful to just try to go chronologically as much as we can. Um, and so something that was really interesting to me that I’m, I don’t think a lot of people know, and I certainly didn’t know if that your milk or more accurately, your colostrum can come in before you have a baby.

[00:10:01] I’m not sure if that happened for you. 

[00:10:03] Kelly: [00:10:03] I can honestly say I don’t 

[00:10:04] Bree: [00:10:04] remember. Yeah. See, I do. And mine came in at 17 weeks, so I barely had a little baby bump. And it was quite funny actually, because one night I was lying in bed and a little drip appeared kind of on top of my boot. And I was like, Oh, and so I changed my shirt and then another one came and I was like, the roof must be leaking, like what is leaking on me?

[00:10:26] And I did not make that connection at all, that it was coming from me and I was mortified. I was like, what is going on? And so from that point on pretty much I had to wear breasts pads. So that’s a long time. Um, And that was so interesting to me. So by the time my little boy was born, I had stored some colostrum in the case that we had a traumatic birth or had to be separated.

[00:10:52] And I had, they suggested about six to 12 mils, um, to bring with you to the hospital. And I had like 65, I had so much. Um, and yeah, I found that really interesting. So I thought I’d share that. Th 

[00:11:06] Kelly: [00:11:06] that’s a great thing to know, because even the thought of keeping it. Hmm. No, that’s a really important part because although we all have, we try not to, but we set up expectations about the way we want our birth to go.

[00:11:19] It’s almost like having some stored claustrum there, whether you use it or you’re able to donate that, which is another conversation really handy to have that. And. You’re almost needing to learn how to express it before you’re even at that point. So it’s quite an early discussion and you told me what believe you squeeze it into a cup?

[00:11:38] Is that the theory? 

[00:11:39] Bree: [00:11:39] Yeah, so generally I was only 37 weeks and four days when my, when I had my little boy. So generally they don’t remember. I recommend that you stop pumping until you’re kind of full term because that can stimulate Labour to begin. Um, so what they suggest is you use a manual expressing technique, um, which is just like milking your own boobs.

[00:12:02] And then. At best, most people will get one drop, but that is still important. It’s called liquid gold for a reason. Um, and you will then catch that in a little medicine cup and then transfer it into a syringe and feed it up, freeze it, um, with the idea that. If your baby should need it, post-birth then you’d feed it to them through this syringe.

[00:12:23] Um, what ended up happening was that no one remembered to put mine in the freezer at the hospital. So it’ll defrost it and have to go and be in, which was devastating. Um, but yeah, that’s the process and it, it’s hard to wrap your mind around and I found the process pretty modifying, but with time you get more comfortable.

[00:12:43] Kelly: [00:12:43] So the key takeaway for me there is. Um, go and do your research on the best way to express without stimulating Labour do research on the best way to store sterilization planning for having to move with that. So you may want a home birth, you may plan a hospital birth, but you need to make arrangements and make sure that that is protected fiercely and those that planning.

[00:13:06] When you’re in the intensity of Labour planet. 

[00:13:10] Bree: [00:13:10] Absolutely. And I think, I think also that, you know, maybe in your experience, it didn’t come in prior to birth. That’s also totally normal. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have to, it’s not any indication of how much milk you will have for some people they do. And for some people that don’t.

[00:13:23] Hmm. Yeah. 

[00:13:23] Kelly: [00:13:23] Well, one of the things that was an issue for me, During pregnancy was that I actually had some health issues, which meant that, uh, my, I basically had a, let’s call it a rash over my whole body. I had an immune system issue, which meant that my and my nipples were actually really raw and saw and weeping.

[00:13:42] And so when I was going through midwife led care, which at the time was in London. Uh, when I was talking to my caregivers about breastfeeding, they were sort of looking at me going, ah, I don’t think you’re going to be able to breastfeed. And I was like, no, I really want to do this. So I was faced with, so at some point it must have come in because the treatment, which I ended up seeking some.

[00:14:06] Complimentary I’ll call it complimentary advice. Uh, they actually have a homeopathic hospital in London, which is very unusual and whatever your feelings are on homeopathy for me, the care that I received there and the acknowledgement was. Outstanding. And one of the things that she did say to me is as soon as your breasts start to leak, rub it into the skin around your nipples.

[00:14:30] And that was like life-changing. So when we talk about liquid gold, I used breast milk for everything. Like my mother-in-law. She’s old school and she always has put butter on it. Well, as I put breast milk on it. So as soon as at some point it did before the baby, because I remember squeezing it and then just rubbing it on my roar, weeping bleeding nipples, because the midwife is looking at me going, there’s no way you can breastfeed.

[00:14:52] You. Can’t put that in new, fresh babies now, but actually. It sorted them out. And I was able to breastfeed thankfully and obviously had a lot of milk and I wish I’d have known more about donation at that time because I probably would have done it because I literally just w I would, I had big material, breast pads, and that’s, I mean, do your own research.

[00:15:13] You can buy disposable breast pads and that’s fine. They’re very, very convenient, but you will have no idea how many you’re going to go through. Let me just tell you that. If you have a lot of milk, if you don’t no problem. But if you are someone who has a lot of milk invest early and get some decent.

[00:15:33] Yeah. I had bamboo back in the day. I don’t know if that’s still 

[00:15:37] Bree: [00:15:37] I’m way too. Now they are still bamboo, I think mostly, but, um, I only used pretty much disposable because I found that the material ones were grossly insufficient for the amount of milk I was leaking. Um, but this time I would like to invest more because I went through boxes and boxes.

[00:15:54] I had a friend come over, maybe eight days post-birth and she’s like, what can I bring you? Like. Do you need something for the baby? And I’m like pads and breast pads, like as many boxes as you can get. And she came with about 10. It was beautiful. And I went through all of them so quickly. Um, but what you mentioned about kind of those first feeds and the pain though, your pain was coming from rash, something post-birth.

[00:16:17] I think that that is something that we get really mixed messages around is like, is breastfeeding supposed to hurt or is it not? And what I’d been told is that. It’s not meant to hurt if you’re doing it right. It won’t hurt. But then it did, it hurts so much. And within 24 hours, my nipples were raw and chased and cracked and bleeding and it sounds terrific.

[00:16:39] And it feels terrific at the time, but it does pass. And my midwife. Beautifully said to me, she’s like, of course it’s going to hurt. When in the past, have you had someone suck on your nipples for 24 hours straight in a day? And I was like, ah, that’s so true. And I think once I accepted that, okay, this is normal and it will pass.

[00:16:57] I didn’t beat myself up about. You know, maybe I’m doing it wrong. Maybe he’s not latching. Right. Maybe. And I was just getting so flustered. So I think that normalizing that it will hurt potentially, but then it also does pass. Um, can be really helpful. Yeah. 

[00:17:13] Kelly: [00:17:13] We don’t want to oversimplify it, but it’s almost like initially you’re having a repetitive strain injury on an N your new nipple.

[00:17:18] You’ve 

[00:17:19] Bree: [00:17:19] gone through to heal. Like they want to feed every 10 minutes. You can’t just like, take a day off. 

[00:17:24] Kelly: [00:17:24] Yeah. Yeah. So the skin is adjusting and it is a very sensitive area and there’s a whole lot of, um, sort of physiological stimulation that occurs. So it’s not just the nipple area, but, um, I don’t know about you, but I found my entire breast would ache and pulse.

[00:17:39] And obviously there’s a letdown process that occurs, and we’re not going to give any advice here. We say. Look into it. What happened for me was that the letdown would occur when the baby cried. Yeah. Any baby? Not just my baby 

[00:17:54] Bree: [00:17:54] or like a sad commercial on TV. Yeah, 

[00:17:58] Kelly: [00:17:58] you’d be, I would be out in the supermarket and I’d be like, I’ve got half an hour to myself.

[00:18:02] I’m and then someone else’s baby would cry and then there would be this aching, all single let down and dripping. And. Yeah. And then what came with that was the emotions as well. And you know, you’re in the aisle reading the back of a thing, just having a quiet sob to yourself because it’s your, your, that’s where the hormones are stimulated.

[00:18:22] Yeah. And it’s crazy. And you feel really out of control. Like this is my body, but some there’s a demon taking over at times. Um, and I think just learning to live with those emotions and accept the meaning. And surrender and 

[00:18:34] Bree: [00:18:34] enjoy. Totally. And I don’t know if you know this, but do you know that if you push your Palm into your nipple, that it will stop your milk?

[00:18:42] No, I didn’t know that either. Wow. No, that’s really important to note because I didn’t figure it out until about gosh, maybe a year into breastfeeding that when you feel you’re let down coming on and some people don’t feel they’re let down, but for me it was very strong. It was a strong tingling. Um, if you just push your.

[00:19:02] Palm into your breasts or anything else? Um, I’m hand signaling, like you need an Instagram. Um, yeah. Um, it actually stops your milk coming out, which is awesome. And would have saved me so many wet t-shirts back in the day. If I know. Yeah. So we did 

[00:19:18] Kelly: [00:19:18] that also because one of the challenges that I had was because I had a lot of milk and I was in order to slow down my milk supply.

[00:19:25] I went through a phase. Which I had to repeat. It took me a long time to get this right, where I would feed off one breast for 24 hours. So yeah. Oh, I wish I’d taken more photos. So I went to something called the LA Leche league. Again, like to have my first child in London, 12 years ago, quite progressive. I went to the LA Leche league.

[00:19:43] They had a look at the way it was feeding that and look at the situation. They took my history and they said, we actually think your body’s overstimulated, probably because you’re doing the new mother thing and putting the baby latching all the time. So I’m overstimulating the milk production. So she said, let’s try a few things.

[00:19:57] And one of them was feed off one breast for 24 hours until it’s dead empty. Yeah. And then swap and then your body will start to. Readjust. So, uh, if anyone’s, uh, had the porn star boob effect with the giant balloon shiny ones, if you can imagine one giant shiny balloon and one very deflated balloon is what happens towards the end of 24 hours.

[00:20:20] One that’s empty and saggy. And the other one, which is quite, um, over full and shiny. So, and then I would swap sides and that actually would then. Bring slow down my milk supply for a little while. And then I would often have to repeat that, and I know a lot more now than I did then. So I was quite possibly my own worst enemy in that overstimulation, but I had no idea about the poem.

[00:20:42] And I wonder if that would have helped too. At certain times for me to say my body, no, actually this isn’t the time to stimulate slow down. Um, and I 

[00:20:50] Bree: [00:20:50] think that it is so much trial and error. And I think that if you’re struggling, definitely seek out, um, a lactation consultant, which is probably what you would have seen.

[00:20:59] Um, cause they are invaluable. They are incredible. And we can actually, in, in Brisbane, at least you can go to child health services, um, and see one for free. So that’s an awesome option. Uh, for me, I had much the same issue in that I had so much milk milk, and then I compounded that by also expressing, um, so from my understanding, your milk tends to settle down about six weeks.

[00:21:25] Um, post-birth that’s when your body. Figures out how much milk it needs to feed your baby. But if you’re stimulating that more frequently than it’s going to think that you need more. So I started pumping, um, about eight days post-birth um, and that’s a whole nother subject, which I do want to talk about, but yeah.

[00:21:45] We’ll stay here for a second. Um, and so I had so much milk. I had so much milk and if I had to describe the postpartum period in one word, it would be wet. I was just wet all the time. I felt like I was leaking from every area of my body. I was, no one had told me about night sweats. I don’t know if you got that, but I was drenched in sweat every night, which wasn’t helped by the fact that it was.

[00:22:08] It was the middle of summer, but also just wet all the time. I’d leak through my breast pads. I’d put double breast pads in and like through those. And I’d wake up in a puddle, um, especially if your baby slept in an abnormally long stretch at night suddenly. Um, and so what I would do would be. I would feel my let down coming.

[00:22:28] So they would give you the advice to let the baby cycle and they’ll stimulate, let down and then start feeding. Whereas if I even thought about my baby, my boobs started spraying milk cats. I’d be like, great. Bring me the baby. It’s like rush him onto my boob. And he was such a speedy baby. And I think it’s cause he was just getting milk, pumped into his mouth.

[00:22:52] He wasn’t working for it at all. It was just being forced down there. So eventually what I started doing, I was waiting for my let down to pass and I’d just catch it in a towel and that would get off the intensity and a lot of my, for milk and then I’d latch him on and he’d get kind of the good stuff.

[00:23:11] Um, but it was so, so much trial and error and I don’t know the solution, but just be prepared to be wet and have spare t-shirts on hand. 

[00:23:22] Kelly: [00:23:22] Yeah. And th that’s the important message is that we, we’re not actually coming with answers here. We’re trying to give you. Some stories that have occurred to us. And there will be stories at the other end of the spectrum, uh, with women who really want a lot of milk and it’s not there.

[00:23:35] And there are a whole bunch of other tools and tips and tricks about how to, um, to, to assist in that. But yeah. Knowing the services that are available easily, really big one. And throughout this, we will continue to share the resources that we were aware of to try and give you the access to go and hunt down in your region where possible, what is available to you.

[00:23:55] And the common theme will be always ask the question, always go and seek help because there will be something someone somewhere in the world will have been going through what you are going through right now. Totally. 

[00:24:09] Bree: [00:24:09] So, yeah, and I think there are so many great services out there. Um, but I think that also, it’s kind of striking that balance between asking for help, because it is hard.

[00:24:18] You have never, anyone who tells you that breastfeeding comes naturally is lying. I don’t know, but you’ve never breastfed before in our culture. We often haven’t seen women openly breastfeed before we’re not growing up with. You know, our moms and our aunties with their breasts out, just popping a baby on when they’re hungry, like we may have back in tribal times.

[00:24:40] So I think that it is such a new experience and it, for most people, it doesn’t come naturally and you do need a little bit of help along the way. Um, for me, it was also trying to navigate that. Balance between asking questions and also trusting my intuition. So I also fed off one verb and my midwife kept saying to me, you need to make sure you’re feeding off both boobs.

[00:25:03] I’m not sure if that was in terms of draining the breast to prevent mastitis or making sure he was getting enough. Food, but he just started projectile vomiting everywhere. Cause he was so overloaded with milk. So then that was one of the, you know, one of those first time in motherhood where I had to be like, no, actually I know what my baby needs and thank you for the advice, but it’s not suitable to us at this time.

[00:25:26] Um, and the other area that I kind of yeah, took that on board, I guess, um, was introducing a bottle really early on. Um, so we did that at about eight days. Old and we’ve received. It’s a lot of advice to the contrary. And I really struggled to find information supporting that choice because it’s not widely supported.

[00:25:50] And everyone I spoke to told me that I’d create nipple confusion. He’d start to refuse the breast because it was easier to get it from the bottle, uh, all those kinds of things. And whenever I asked the midwife for advice and support, she’d just be like, no, you can’t do that. That’s not a good option. And I was like, but I’m going to do it.

[00:26:06] And so I need some advice. You know, where can I get it? And she’s like, it’s not a good idea. And so then I kind of just had to trial and error, but we decided to introduce the bottle. Um, I think after reading a book by midwife cath, it’s called the first six weeks. It’s a great book. And. The idea for us was that then my husband could do a feed at night and that if we introduced it early, he’d get used to taking a bottle.

[00:26:33] And that was really important to me because I really struggled with the idea of feeling depended on completely. Um, not so much physically I could meet the demands, but just psychologically, like knowing, like I can’t pop out for 30 minutes. Like I can not go down the road to get. A loaf of bread because he might get hungry and scream.

[00:26:53] I found that really overwhelming. So to us, it made sense to introduce a bottle and that way, if I had to be away from him, for any reason, we could trust that someone else could step in. And that ended up being really helpful. When I went back to work while still exclusively breastfeeding, I know a lot of moms tend to struggle.

[00:27:15] To introduce a bottle. When they go back to work, the baby might be six months old or 12 months old or somewhere in between there. And they refused the bottle because they’re not used to that sensory experience. So for us, it was. An awesome choice. Um, but again, that was not supported at all. And I guess I just figured he’s still getting anywhere between 10 and 50 breastfeeds in a day.

[00:27:40] He’s hardwired to know where the good stuff comes from. One bottle is not going to. Derail the whole process. So out of 

[00:27:49] Kelly: [00:27:49] curiosity, then inside of that bottle fee, did you introduce your own milk or formula or a 

[00:27:54] Bree: [00:27:54] mixture? Yeah, so we introduced breast milk. I wasn’t opposed to formula and we did buy some, but we didn’t end up using it.

[00:28:01] Um, mostly because I had so much milk, which then you get into a kind of. Cycle where I had so much milk. So I pumped, so my buddy created more milk. So I pumped and I definitely ended up with an oversupply, which meant that I was often uncomfortable and sore. Um, but I was actually really worried about not having enough milk because I’d heard so many stories of people who didn’t have enough.

[00:28:28] So to me, I was like, Well, let’s keep my supplier. Let’s be prepared. Um, so I would just pump once or twice a day. I, I could get a lot of milk. I know. Some women will have to pump for, you know, three weeks to save enough for one feed when they go out. So I was really lucky on that front. Um, and then I’d just phrase it.

[00:28:49] And at one point I had to stop pumping cause my parents who we were living with at the time, they whole freezers just for them breast milk. And mom was like, I need some room. Can you just come down? Um, and then my husband would defrost it at night. And feed it to him, but that actually created a lot of problems for us because I soon learned that breasts are amazing in that they have the right amount of milk for your baby at the right temperature prepared at the right time.

[00:29:18] Whereas what kept happening. And I think there’ll be two types of people who listen to this story. People who are like, Ugh, what a bitch and people who were like, how dare he that, um, what would happen is I’d Matt would defrost maybe 180 mils of breast milk. And then he would have failed the Beatty 10 mils and then leave it on the table.

[00:29:39] And I’d wake up in the morning. And there was like 170 mils of breast milk. Why sit on the table. And I was like, how dare you? And I’d like, cry about this wasted breast milk that I’d, you know, pumped and sterilized and stored and frozen and defrosted. Um, so while I was grateful to have the extra sleep. I quickly learned that sometimes it was easier for him to just bring the baby into me and feed, but having that option again, just knowing he was okay without me for any stretch time, I think was still worth it.

[00:30:12] And we would probably do the same again 

[00:30:15] Kelly: [00:30:15] next. Yes. I love those stories because they all come back to a key thing, which is have. Um, have really firm ideas held loosely because you need to be willing to adjust and change and experiment and work out what works for you, your family and your situation, because we do sometimes get really attached to things going a particular way.

[00:30:37] And when they don’t, that can be more devastating than the actual impact of the old crying over spilled milk theme, which is, are you actually crying over the spilt milk or is this just a. A buildup of things not going exactly the way you want. Yeah. 

[00:30:51] Bree: [00:30:51] I don’t know though. Breastmilk is sometimes worth crying over the process of getting it.

[00:30:56] Um, But no, you’re absolutely right. And I think you can have one idea about how your breastfeeding journey is going to go, and it goes a totally different path. And I was obviously so worried about not having enough breast milk and I ended up having too much. And kind of, as you alluded to before, what I ended up doing was donating my breast milk.

[00:31:16] And again, I w I wish I had known about that sooner. I didn’t find that out till quite late in my, um, breastfeeding process, but it’s a really cool option that. I think it’s important for women to know about whether they want to be the recipient of breast milk for their baby or the donor. 

[00:31:33] Kelly: [00:31:33] And where would someone find out about that?

[00:31:36] Bree: [00:31:36] So there are a couple of options we do in Brisbane, and I think worldwide have, um, Milk banks that are generally attached to the hospital. That process can be a little bit tricky and that you do need to have, um, breasts, uh, blood tests and screening processes to make sure that you’re a suitable donor and it can be quite lengthy and you do have to jump through a few hoops.

[00:32:01] Um, but then from my understanding, they then give the milk to mostly NICU babies. So, um, babysitter in the neonatal unit. And that’s incredible and such an important service. The other side is, uh, M where I donated was through a Facebook page called human milk milk for human babies. So it is unregulated.

[00:32:23] So you make that choice and it works on a, on a trust system of disclosure. Um, and that’s for some people and it’s not for others. Um, but yeah, so I shared that I was this old, I was a non-smoker I didn’t drink alcohol while breastfeeding. Um, I hadn’t been on any prescription or otherwise drugs. Um, and then you advertise how much milk you have available and people will say, I need it for this reason or I’m interested.

[00:32:53] Um, so I ended up donating to, I think, two mums. One who had had a mastectomy and couldn’t feed her baby and sh her baby also had, um, medical issues. And so that felt incredible to be able to donate to her. Um, and another lady, I can’t remember their story, but obviously everyone’s. Yeah, desire to feed their baby breast milk is different and equally valid.

[00:33:20] Um, and then down the track, I also donated to my sister’s baby, my niece, when she, she was born at 32 weeks and ended up in the neonatal unit. Um, and while she waited for her milk to come in following it, pretty emergency severity. Um, I provided milk for her. That’s cool. That’s a really cool 

[00:33:41] Kelly: [00:33:41] experience.

[00:33:41] That’s an amazing experience to be able to give that to someone who genuinely wants and needs it. One thing that brings me back to is throughout our conversations, what you’ll start to learn about our different personalities is that breeds very much the research arm of the team. So if there is anything that she’s curious about, she will go and dive into the research very deeply.

[00:34:02] And so. If most of the time, we will tell a lot of personal stories if she does refer to something it’s because she has done the reading and research, but our caveat is always pleased to your own research. What we’re trying to do is bring things to the surface about sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know.

[00:34:19] And so making sure that people understand what is available to them. So I really enjoy the fact that when you come to me and say, I’ve been looking into this, I know how deeply you’re going into that. So, um, very much appreciate that. And with us now, both. In parallel journeys may training to be a doula and you training to be a midwife and for very different reasons, but we’re learning as we go, these conversations are part opening up ideas and part telling stories.

[00:34:47] Uh, but I have not actually heard that breast story before the breast milk story. So that was fantastic. 

[00:34:53] Bree: [00:34:53] I think you’re right. And I think that, um, it is important to mix educational and informative with storytelling. Um, But you’re right. I do, I do love diving into the research, but at the same time, we are still on our own journey and we can only talk to our experience.

[00:35:09] I don’t know what it’s like to try to breastfeed following a traumatic birth or to have insufficient breast milk and what the emotional journey of that must be, or a baby with a tongue tie or latch problems. You know, we can’t speak to that experience. We can only share our own, um, yeah. 

[00:35:30] Kelly: [00:35:30] So in terms of jumping into the actual feeding process, we’ve talked a little bit about the fact that it can hurt and that’s not bad or wrong.

[00:35:39] It’s the part of the learning process. It’s learning a new skill and when we learn new things, it is hard. And although there is a very natural part that your body has the ability to produce milk, as you mentioned, I mean, traditionally we would have a tribe. A tribe is a very broad term, but there would be.

[00:35:57] The process of handing down the stories and the knowledge and the process from generation to generation. And that process is not necessarily in place in modern society. The question for you to ask yourself is who is my tribe? Who do I have to learn from? And if that is not naturally around you, then that might be something you want to think about is who am I going to for advice, what is my tribe that I’m going to use?

[00:36:21] And that might not be your normal tribe, particularly if you’re in a position of transitioning. From one life to another, which happens for a lot of us as women, we go from being, you know, in your case at a young Footloose and fancy free traveler to, uh, you know, or business woman or someone who already has other children.

[00:36:39] So there’s a bunch of transitions that do occur. 

[00:36:42] Bree: [00:36:42] Yeah. And I think that also, you know, going back in time, if you had. Breastfeeding struggles. There was often someone else who could breastfeed your baby, you know, even your maternal mother or another woman in your, in your tribe, in your clan. And whereas now it’s just us.

[00:36:56] It’s like make a bust and. More than ever. We know the research on how great breastfeeding is, and we’re being fed this messaging. So it feels like the stakes are so high, but there are things out of your control. You know, you can do all the things, read all the things and bring in all the professionals and it still might not work for you.

[00:37:14] Um, so I think that that is it’s part of the surrendering that motherhood teaches you so beautiful. Yeah, 

[00:37:20] Kelly: [00:37:20] absolutely. And I can imagine how many people have that Ooh factor when you talk about breastfeeding another child, but we feed our children. Cows milk, perhaps milk. We feed our children all kinds of things, but we live in a very sterile environment.

[00:37:34] Whereas, you know, nature’s supply of milk, one human milk to another human milk. Yes, of course there are differences, but if your own milk is not available, then the choice to use another. Set of human milk. It’s actually not that crazy. So I think people need to mentally get over that, but you’re right. It would have been, there would have been multiple, uh, postpartum women in Amy tribe at a time.

[00:37:59] So if the mother was doing something and then a baby would latch on and you could share that, and that’s sounds crazy to us now in our modern world. But in fact, you have this milk supply there, which. Um, is available. Yeah. And 

[00:38:15] Bree: [00:38:15] I think you touched on a really important thing is that like our ideas and that expectations and norms and understanding of breastfeeding are changing so rapidly.

[00:38:24] So when you’re talking about linking in with your tribe and consulting them, you need to make sure you’re asking the right people because. You know, going back a generation or two, um, know I’m thinking my grandparents generation formula became really popular and that was a really widely used and supported option.

[00:38:43] So I know my, my grandma had a terrible experience with breastfeeding. Um, And it’s very pro formula. So if I’m going to her for advice, then I need to be prepared to hear that side and to potentially not be supported if I’m looking for, you know, encouraging breastfeeding advice and support. Um, and I don’t know enough about my mom’s breastfeeding journey, but I do know she.

[00:39:06] Fed for what was considered an extended period of a year, um, which is it’s not extended, but in her days it was, um, in her days she’s only 50, not bad at all. Um, but that’s the thing. These things are changing so quickly. And she talks about my dad asking her like, Oh, when are you going to stop feeding? And she’s like, when it stops working for me, but right now it’s great.

[00:39:29] So yeah, bugger off and you know, so we’re shifting so quickly and it’s hard to keep up with. The resource, the research and the changes. And, um, yeah. So you gotta be careful and selective where you’re getting your advice and information. Oh, definitely. 

[00:39:45] Kelly: [00:39:45] That’s such an interesting point because, um, my mother was had babies in the seventies, the mid seventies, 75, and I’m 77.

[00:39:52] And I remember her talking a lot about having a really tough time with my brother. So when I was born, I did not even get a look into like, take the baby away and give it the bottle. Exactly. So that was. But that was also the era of TV dinners had come about, you know, frozen meals were in and it was all about the convenience.

[00:40:09] And so I’m, you know, we talk about your research. Um, I’m probably realize as I get older, I’ve got a bit of a rebellious streak in me and I probably am a bit of a line stepper. Yeah. I can’t quite pinpoint where I got my ideas from, but. I very much, when it came to breastfeeding, I was like, I’m doing what is right for me.

[00:40:30] And that meant that I made a lot of mistakes because there’s some advice I probably should have listened to, but that did include. The fact that I was, uh, went back to work after six weeks with a baby in the financial district of London, which was really confronting for my work colleagues, because I would turn up to the office with the baby asleep in the pram pocket, in the corner and go to work and pay.

[00:40:51] And to be fair, can I just say this was not a good choice? Okay. It is what I did. It’s not what I recommend. And I learned a lot with my second child, but I was in a very, probably needed someone to put their hand on me and say, You need to slow down and take a step down and in the end, 

[00:41:09] Bree: [00:41:09] and when you working in a male dominated workplace or was it a pretty, pretty good mix?

[00:41:12] Yeah, 

[00:41:13] Kelly: [00:41:13] no, I very much male-dominant. I am from the it industry. Um, it engineering, uh, I can only, I can’t even remember a female that I worked with in that instance, our steps now 

[00:41:27] Bree: [00:41:27] probably very confronting for, for the men. 

[00:41:30] Kelly: [00:41:30] Yeah, very much so. And so there was this element of, uh, But we’re trying to, I’m trying to have a meeting and they’re very distracted, obviously completely reasonably by the fact that there’s a baby in the corner and I’m sort of going no, no, no.

[00:41:43] That’s. Cause I was still trying to keep up this facade that everything was okay. And, um, but what that meant was that. I needed to do things like breastfeed on the tube in London. I needed to, you know, if the baby did wake up, I’d be like, I’m just gonna feed. And for, for the people around me, I did not take into account at all, how that made them feel, which was probably not a great choice.

[00:42:04] But at the same time, I was like, I’m feeding my baby and I’m doing it right here because the baby needs to be fed. I don’t know quite where I got those sort of very out there thoughts from, but it was just because I was so driven to say my body, my choice, that I probably, um, you know, just swept through a lot of people who probably remember, they probably tell stories now, but that crazy woman who used to bring her baby in, in the middle of London and how crazy she was.

[00:42:29] Bree: [00:42:29] And I think that. I kind of disagree with you. I don’t think it’s that important to consider when you’re breastfeeding, the comfort of those around you. You know, they’re grown adults, they can grapple with those feelings, but your baby can’t wait. And you know, that’s a, well-protected legal right in Australia to feed where you want when you want.

[00:42:47] I imagine it’s much the same in London, but whereas you had a very natural rebellious streak. Like that was something that I definitely had to acquire. Um, and. You shared with me a story before that I think you should share now about your wedding, that’s it? 

[00:43:03] Kelly: [00:43:03] Yes. I w we got married when my eldest boy was four months old.

[00:43:08] And, you know, often the night for the wedding, you’re separated from your partner. We, that sounds quite traditional, but I stayed with a friend on a farm. We were in a very rural area and her parents were there and I was. Walking around in the morning. And I had a breast, a hand breast pump attached to one breast.

[00:43:26] I was on the phone. I was doing things I was walking around, pumping. The baby was in the corner and her parents are sort of sitting at the dining room table having their morning cup of tea. And we’re talking about people in their sixties already. And so they’re sort of sitting there just having a cup of tea and I’m walking around pumping milk, doing this, doing that, and, uh, I remember at some point later than sort of saying, Oh, it’s really nice to see how comfortable you feel with us.

[00:43:49] And I think that we’re actually talking. 

[00:43:50] Bree: [00:43:50] Yeah. And you’re like, you, I didn’t even realize you were here. I was just doing what needed to be done exactly 

[00:43:55] Kelly: [00:43:55] because I was to have some meal ready, um, for, during the ceremony, which leads us to one other funny story about my wedding. Cause the point of me pumping.

[00:44:04] And being prepared was that I actually wanted to have a glass of champagne on my wedding. So it was like, okay, how many hours do I need? Uh, you know, to make sure it’s out of my system and all of that. And I had this lovely strapless dress on, and of course they’re quite long days weddings. And I remember getting to about.

[00:44:19] Four o’clock in the afternoon and you can visibly see in my wedding photos that my breasts get bigger and they get bigger and bigger. And  because I’ve got to start this top on. So it’s quite obvious. And I remember at one point sidling over to my mother and saying, mom, I need you to come back and get me out of this dress.

[00:44:35] Or I’m going to explode everywhere in front of people, because there were just aching and getting bigger and bigger because although I realized I needed to express I’ve course completely forgot that my body doesn’t know that I want to put. Press pause. And I didn’t know the Palm trick, you know, my body was like not pausing.

[00:44:51] It was going, come on. We’ve normally had a few fades by now and it’s just building up and building up. 

[00:44:56] Bree: [00:44:56] Totally. Um, and I had a similar story on our wedding day. Luckily again, I am very pro research and. What we know about drinking and breastfeeding is changing pretty rapidly and people are still very divided on this topic.

[00:45:11] But from my research, I felt comfortable having a glass of wine and breastfeeding, and I would often do it. Um, as my rebellious streak developed, I would often sit at like the pub with my husband and be like drinking wine and feeding my baby. And the looks were fantastic. And I was just kind of reveling in it, but I was the same on my wedding day.

[00:45:33] I was like, I’ll just feed him. Breastmilk, you know, he’s a year old, he’ll be fine. And then by the end of the day, I’m like pulling my boob out of my top of my doesn’t bring him here. Um, your buddy, absolutely doesn’t know. And even when I went. Do you remember when I went away by myself? When would that 

[00:45:48] Kelly: [00:45:48] have been done to the 

[00:45:49] Bree: [00:45:49] gold coast?

[00:45:50] Yeah. So about a, I think about a year and a half into Parenthood, I was just feeling exhausted and overwhelmed. I had not slept, I don’t think I’d slept a full night in two years. And so I announced my husband that I was going away for a night and he’d just have to manage without me. And luckily he was incredibly supportive.

[00:46:09] Um, and I had an event down in new South Wales. So timed it around then and being that I’d been breastfeeding for a year and a half, and he wasn’t feeding that often, it didn’t even occur to me to take a pump. And then I got kind of like 12, 24 hours into my stay and I was in so much pain and I had no pump.

[00:46:29] I didn’t know where to get one locally. And I had actually never learned to hand express at all. And so instead of like sitting with my feet up drinking wine, I was like over the bathroom sink, like milking my boob, trying to get some relief. And then when I finally went to the event the other day, the next day, the host of the event hugged me.

[00:46:49] And I was like, Oh like a whimpering. So, you know, you can have an agenda about what’s going to happen. And sometimes he babes to just like, absolutely not. 

[00:46:59] Kelly: [00:46:59] That’s so true. That’s so true. I remember just being worried about you driving down there because then you had Todd you’re out. You’re like, are you okay?

[00:47:05] Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:47:08] Bree: [00:47:08] absolutely. And so we were talking about prior to this. I started off breastfeeding incredibly. I did it very discreetly with the towel over my shoulder and I’d take myself into another room. And pretty soon I figured out, but that was just not realistic for me at all. I totally respect women’s right to cover up if that’s what makes them feel comfortable.

[00:47:31] But I hated feeling as if that I had to, as if it was enforced upon me. Um, And so, and you can see the transition in photos. I have me breastfeeding because I did make a point of. Asking my husband to take some. And in the early days I’m like all covered up. And then by the end, I’ve got like both boobs out and just like a baby onto one, one handedly cooking dinner.

[00:47:53] Um, and I shared the story with you before, but I think it’s worth sharing that. Um, quite early on, maybe in the first 12 weeks I was breastfeeding at my father-in-law’s house. Uh, and it was February. It was. Stinking hot and I couldn’t get him to latch on. And I was on the verge of tears. He was screaming.

[00:48:12] We were, you know, under a, um, a cloth. And I was mindful that, you know, my father-in-law is in his sixties and off that generation and didn’t want to offend anyone and, um, My sister-in-law came up to me and she just said, so gently and beautifully, like you do what you need to feed to feed this baby. Don’t worry about anyone else here.

[00:48:35] Just do what you’ve got to do. Like we don’t mind. And it made me so emotional and it still does because it was just like the reminder I needed coming from someone else. Like this is not working. We can see you’re struggling, just do what you need to do. And, um, that was a real pivotal moment for me, because I was like, I can’t continue to.

[00:48:57] You know, make things hard for myself and my baby. Like it’s already hard enough for the comfort of others in the room. They just need to deal with it. And I just need to do what I need to do to feed this baby. 

[00:49:09] Kelly: [00:49:09] And that’s a form of. Um, everyday advocacy and just knowing when it’s time to just have a gentle work with someone and okay.

[00:49:16] Not everyone’s ready for it. I know one of my favorite things is I will often see a mother in the supermarket or in a supermarket carpark, juggling with a newborn and a toddler. And I will love to just go over and say, can I help? Can I put your shopping in the car? You know, it’s not like, do you want me to hold the baby?

[00:49:32] Because I don’t know this person, but can I help? And sometimes they say yes, and sometimes they say, no thanks. I’m fine. But I’m sure the fact that someone even noticed that they would. Trying to do multiple things is the point because that’s all I want to do sometimes 

[00:49:45] Bree: [00:49:45] is to notice okay. Lately. And my sister-in-law, you know, which I think add added to the moment I had doesn’t have kids she’s never breastfed.

[00:49:52] I don’t believe she wants kids. And so. That felt so powerful to me. And another story. Um, when I was shopping one day I had got out, I think the first time by myself and he was screaming and screaming and I had already got all my shopping and I was like, I need to put it through, like, what am I going to do, abandon my trolley.

[00:50:12] And then I’ll have to come back and do it. And a lady came up to me and said, I’m going to push your trolley. And then I’m going to put my, put your groceries through for you. You do what you need to do. Just focus on the baby. I’ve got this and she’s like, I’ve got five kids, I’m a midwife. I get it. And I just cried and cried and cried and it wasn’t even the practical help.

[00:50:32] It was just that like female to female. Like we get it. We’ve been there. You’re not in this alone. And it’s so easy to just see someone’s struggling and be like, mm. Oh, that sounds tough. But to take that next step and, um, actually offer help even if someone declines and I always try to, and I’d say probably nine out of 10.

[00:50:54] Times people decline because it’s kind of our day felt and then it’s fine. Um, but I do hope that even the offer just like makes people feel that little bit more supportive. Um, 

[00:51:04] Kelly: [00:51:04] I liked the way she said this is, she kind of taught you through, like, this is what I’m going to do and not asking you because you probably will go.

[00:51:10] No, I’m fine. But she kind of noticed, and she was, had that count as better. I’m going to do this. And if you tell them to stop, I’ll stop, but I’m just going to do it. And that 

[00:51:19] Bree: [00:51:19] helps like that maternal, like she was. Swooping in. And she’s like, this is how it’s going to go. And didn’t give me the room to go like, Oh no, she had her hands full.

[00:51:27] She had five kids with her. Like she did not need to be taking on any responsibility, but it would have been so easy for me to say no, if she had said, um, how can I help? Because at that point I was like, I don’t fucking know. I have got no idea. Um, but yeah, it was, it was such a nice moment. And I think those moments.

[00:51:47] Stick with you, you know, two years down the track, 10 years down the track, they just stay with it. 

[00:51:53] Kelly: [00:51:53] And you should always remember those because there’ll be other situations where people act in a really awkward way that it’s not about you, it’s about them and that their reactions. So you hang on to those really positive moments and pay it forward.

[00:52:06] I 

[00:52:06] Bree: [00:52:06] think so. And this one’s not breastfeeding related, but while we’re in a sharing mode, the other one that comes up. Mine is, um, from mum’s group, we’d met at a cafe and it had been so traumatic because I had one of those babies that screamed in the car constantly for seemingly no reason. So by the time I got to mom’s group, we were both like sweating and in tears.

[00:52:27] And I just wanted to go home, but I loved being there. So I was like, just get there, just get there. Um, I tried all the things like noise canceling. Headphones and loud music for me to cope. And that was after trying all the things to help him cope. Of course. Um, and then at coffee, he was just crying and crying and I was dropping things and I knocked something over and I couldn’t settle him.

[00:52:48] And one of the other moms just said to me, No one is judging you do what you need to do. Take a moment if you need, but it’s okay. Don’t worry about anyone else. Cause I was thinking, Oh gosh, where, you know, people are trying to have a peaceful coffee and my baby’s just screaming and blah, blah, blah. And she was just like, you’re fine.

[00:53:05] Do what you need to do. And, um, I’ve mentioned this to her. I mentioned it to her, um, down the track a couple of months or a year later. And she was like, Oh, I don’t even remember that. And I was like, what? It was such a powerful moment for me. And she’s like, I just told you the truth. And I was like, but I needed to hear it so desperately in that moment.

[00:53:26] Kelly: [00:53:26] Yeah. That’s, that is a great story. There’s nothing like to be grounding, like going to a mums and Bubs movie cinema and noticing that everyone’s in the same boat or, or one of those experience. But sometimes we need reminding we do definitely need reminding. 

[00:53:40] Bree: [00:53:40] Definitely. So 

[00:53:41] Kelly: [00:53:41] jumping back to the breastfeeding, because we, there is so much in this and we don’t want to try and cover everything, but I’d like to leave it with one little suggestion, I guess, around.

[00:53:54] Being prepared and let’s, let’s come back to some other things around it. But one of the things I always remember is being ready when you sit down to breastfeed or if you’re standing up, you know, what do you need to have with you? And having that little kit bag ready to go? Because this came about from a conversation of, I wasn’t thirsty.

[00:54:12] And then I sat down and all of a sudden, Oh, I need a drink. And that frustration of forgetting 

[00:54:17] Bree: [00:54:17] things. Yeah, absolutely. And there’s the logistical things. Um, That you don’t think about like, okay, I’m going to be sitting here for 40 minutes. It would probably be handy to get a snack, to have my phone handy together, TV, remote, and once you’re appropriate breastfeed.

[00:54:34] And once you’ve been doing it for a while, you can just move around. But in those early days you need. Not two hands. You need like three to four hands to get the correct position and the correct latch. And I would sit down and then be like, Oh, damn it. I’ve forgotten this and this. And I was constantly calling out to my husband like, Hey, can you maybe just go get me this and that?

[00:54:54] Um, and the one that I remember the most vividly was water, and I know I don’t understand it, but I know this is a physiological thing that because your breast milk is largely made up of water, that when the baby latches it. Triggers, you know, this desire to drink and I’d sit down. I wouldn’t grab a water bottle, but as soon as he started feeding, I was like, my mouth was a desert.

[00:55:17] I was the thirstiest person on earth. I’m like, bring me water. And he just like, why don’t you just get it before you sit down? And I’m like, I wasn’t thirsty three minutes ago, but now I’m dying. Like, yeah. 

[00:55:30] Kelly: [00:55:30] Yeah, absolutely. So I think that we can go into more detail on that later, but. Again, the question would be, I’m sure there’s lots of amazing resources out there of get together the list of things that you think your need.

[00:55:40] Yeah. Get a little bag, a like. Catty catty, put the stuff in it, call it the breastfeeding catty, have some fun with it. Add things, take things, you know, leave yourself little notes, a pen and 

[00:55:51] Bree: [00:55:51] paper. Yeah. And that’s what I ended up doing. And it was fantastic. And it mostly, it was just like towels because of leaking, but it was like towels and breasts, pads and snacks.

[00:56:01] Like not healthy snacks literally. Cause that’s not what you want to eat while you’re breastfeeding and sleep deprived like chocolate. Um, And having that handy, although sometimes I forgot to actually grab the caddy, but, um, when I did it was super handy. So I’d strongly recommend that, uh, either to get for yourself or if you need a gift for someone that would be 

[00:56:21] Kelly: [00:56:21] fantastic.

[00:56:21] Nice. I like that. Excellent. So I think we might wrap up today because we can continue to go on forever on it. Um, let’s uh, I’d like to do a little teaser though and say we didn’t get to talking about sex and breastfeeding. Okay. And I think that’s a really, um, we’re going to have some fun with it, but there are some stories and in that, so let’s come back and talk about that one another time, because it’s an important part that you can’t have a baby without sex.

[00:56:48] And afterwards it’s. There’s some things to chat 

[00:56:51] Bree: [00:56:51] about this. And I think that can definitely be a whole episode in itself. So we’ll save that one. It’s going to be a good one. 

[00:56:58] Kelly: [00:56:58] Let’s do that as always. Thank you for listening. We will give you the resources that we talk about in the links 

[00:57:05] Bree: [00:57:05] slightly. 

[00:57:08] Kelly: [00:57:08] Thanks for joining us for today’s conversation.

[00:57:11] If you want to hear more like this, don’t forget to hit subscribe. So you don’t miss an episode. If you’d like to know more about anything we talked about or you heard on the podcast today, check out our website, http://www.birthofamother.com.edu. You can find us on Instagram at Matrescence dot podcast or send us an email to info@birthofamother.com.

[00:57:32] Did I, you, 

[00:57:33] Bree: [00:57:33] if you think others could benefit from this podcast, take a screenshot of you listening to this episode, to post on your social media and tag us. Alternatively consider leaving a review with your favorite things about the Matrescence podcast. This really helps us to increase our visibility and ensure we are reaching as many women as possible as always thank you for spending your time with us.

[00:57:54] We hope you will tune in next time.

Kelly and Bree


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