Episode 1

#1 What is Matrescence and what is the Matrescence Podcast? The Matrescence Podcast

Matrescence  describes the process of becoming a mother. It encompasses the  complete physical, psychological, social and emotional changes that come with this major right of passage.While 77% of Australian women have experienced matrescence, few have ever heard of the term. Have you? In this episode we attempt to answer the question; "What is Matrescence." Who coined the term? Why does it sound just like adolescence? And why aren't more people talking about it?  Subsequently, we share our own experiences of matrescence and why this term has been so critical in our ability to process and reflect on our own experience of motherhood. If you want to know more about matrescence, there are some incredible resources already available to you. We would highly recommend you check out the links bellow.  Ted Talk: Alexandra Sacks: A new way to think about the transition to motherhoodNew York Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/well/family/the-birth-of-a-mother.html?_r=1The work of Aurelie Anthan including her website: https://www.matrescence.com/Book: Mama Rising: Amy Taylor-KabbazPodcast: Dear Mama Project by Nikki McCahon 


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Kelly: [00:00:00] The birth of a baby is a defining moment in a woman’s life. 

[00:00:14] Bree: [00:00:14] But what about the birth of a mother? 

[00:00:16] Kelly: [00:00:16] That’s right when a baby is born. So two is a mother. 

[00:00:20] Bree: [00:00:20] This transition from woman to mother has a name it’s called Matrescence. 

[00:00:25] Kelly: [00:00:25] This developmental stage is as powerful and irreversible as adolescents, and yet few women have ever heard of it.

[00:00:32] Bree: [00:00:32] So let’s talk about 

[00:00:33] Kelly: [00:00:33] it. Let’s talk about it. Each episode, we will bring them honest and thought provoking conversations, evidence-based research and knowledgeable guests in order to help you emerge and more powerful and aligned version of yourself. So join 

[00:00:47] Bree: [00:00:47] us, your hosts, Kelley and Bree. As we attempt to make sense of Al Matrescence journey and to help you make sense of yours.

[00:01:01] Kelly: [00:01:01] if you’re listening in order, then this is episode number one. And today we want to talk about what is Matrescence. This episode is actually been recorded after we’ve recorded all of the others, but as is their style, we’ve come full circle on our journey in order to bring this series to you, where we feel it’s really important to tackle and bring to light the information that we do have about what is Matrescence and how we came together in these conversations.

[00:01:35] Bree: [00:01:35] Yes. And I think that this is an ongoing process for us, both. We are still very much at the beginning of this journey, but so much learning has occurred from when we first started recording the podcasts to now. So while we always knew that we wanted this to be episode one, a starting point for you as listeners, we wanted to take that time to really continue to reflect on our journey, to make sense of Matrescence and to do a little bit more research on it before we put together this episode for you.

[00:02:02] Kelly: [00:02:02] And throughout the episodes to come, you’ll learn more about each of us where, what stages we’re at and some of the experiences we’ve had through this journey. We’re calling Matrescence. But for this particular kickoff, we want to start with the lens of how do we find out about Matrescence and. What does it actually mean?

[00:02:24] What does the research tell us about it before we go into our reflections on it? 

[00:02:29] Bree: [00:02:29] Absolutely. Yeah. And we will be the first to say that we are not experts on Matrescence. There are a few people out there who, who are, and we will share those with you, but we are just two moms trying to make sense of our own journeys.

[00:02:40] So the episode is very much from that perspective, and we’re hoping that by sharing what we’ve learned and what we’ve been through that will. Encourage you to do more research or reflection or whatever you need to do to process your own journey of motherhood. 

[00:02:54] Kelly: [00:02:54] Excellent. So I’m going to ask Bri to talk a little bit about what is out there in the literature, but kicking off with when we first started this.

[00:03:03] Recording these conversations. I remember our first intro in, at its essence was about two mothers who were daring to be discontent. So we loved our children. We had fantastic lives, but there was this part of us wanting to always rail against certain parts and dare to be discontent with parts of motherhood.

[00:03:22] And I had personally never heard the term Matrescence. And during one of these conversations, you brought it to my attention. At which point I went and. Read did some reading, watched a YouTube clip and it was absolutely like an alignment for me in my mind being further down the track and reflecting on my motherhood journey, but never really feeling like I could understand it.

[00:03:46] So I’d like to throw to you to describe. What you know about Matrescence because you were the person who opened my eyes. 

[00:03:54] Bree: [00:03:54] So I came across the term, I think, um, from a podcast. And I can’t even remember which we both listened to so many podcasts, but as he said, the concept of the Matrescence podcast for us was born before the Mame.

[00:04:06] And we toyed with different names and nothing kind of felt right. And then I put it forward to you and you had to go away and do a little bit of research. And then it was kind of like something just clicked. And we were both like, ah, this is it. And for us, we’ve always had that anchor point of. The birth of a mother.

[00:04:21] So within the Matrescence journey, we do have that focus more on birth and how that sets you up for this Rite of passage. But when we came together, we were both talking about our experiences and while they were very different, uh time-wise my little boy was, he would have been two at the time. Yours were.

[00:04:40] Quickly approaching. Um, the teenage years we had these same kind of feelings of, as you said, just restlessness and questioning and, um, just feelings that we didn’t have the language for. And trying to connect with someone when you don’t have the language is really challenging. And that is where we started talking about the term Matrescence and it kind of just encompasses that whole.

[00:05:09] Experience and it’s messy and it’s the ins and outs and the ebbs and flows of motherhood. It’s not one set experience, but it really encompassed what we were both feeling. So I guess that’s where it started for us. And once we both started to spend more time looking into the term where it came from, that that knowledge grew, and that’s what we want to share with you 

[00:05:32] Kelly: [00:05:32] today.

[00:05:33] Excellent. Thank you. And. I guess one of the leading points about that was there is increasing gap between happiness and dysfunction in, in motherhood. And whilst there are amazing resources, but still a long way to go in areas such as, um, postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and some of those disorders.

[00:06:01] There was almost this space between I’m. Okay. And I’m not okay. Which was, for me, felt like, well, I’m not unhappy, but. Trying to understand that I actually didn’t really enjoy parts of motherhood and then carrying that guilt around with me for years and years and years. And I was always reflecting to know when I was talking to you, I looked back at photos and videos of my children, and there was such happy, delightful little creatures.

[00:06:27] And I’m like, why couldn’t I just enjoy that? And so at the time when we came together in these conversations, I think I was really trying to process that and a good. 11 or 12 years on, I’m still looking back at that period of what did it mean? And so the more I understood about Matrescence and that it was not just something that was okay, you’ve had a baby clean up the mess and move on, but it’s 

[00:06:52] Bree: [00:06:52] same person you were before.

[00:06:54] Kelly: [00:06:54] Yeah. So, so that was really, uh, the, the excitement. So can you tell us about where the corner. The term comes from and what does exist, although, uh, from what I can understand, it is quite a new area of work 

[00:07:10] Bree: [00:07:10] for sure. So the term initially originated in the 1970s and the person who coined the term is Dr.

[00:07:17] Dana Raphael. So she died in 2016, but she is considered to be the mother of Matrescence. She’s the one that coined the term. And interesting fact, she also popularized. I’m not sure if she coined, but definitely popularized the term doula, which is a cool little fact there. So. She was attempting to do exactly what you were doing is figure out why we aren’t talking about this transition.

[00:07:45] So in 1973, she coined the term to acknowledge the transition from woman to mother in a way that normalized the experience because prior to that, we’d really pathologized it. So either you are a happy thriving flourishing mom that loved every second, or you had postnatal depression. There was no in-between and that is still remarkably true and frustratingly.

[00:08:08] That’s how we still view motherhood by and large. Um, because while she came out with this term in the seventies, it really never took off and became popular, popular. And it wasn’t until I think about 2008 that a clinical psychologist, Dr. Harley Anthon revised the term Matrescence and started to really dive into what it means through both her teaching and writing.

[00:08:36] And she is now considered to be kind of the, the go-to expert in the Matrescence space. She’s done a lot of writing and teaching about it, but again, despite a shift towards more of an understanding, it is by no stretch to out stretch out there in popular culture. I think that if you. Shared the term Matrescence with a hundred people, it would be unlikely that you would find one who had heard of it before.

[00:09:02] And as you said, you hadn’t heard of it before. And I had only recently heard of it. And since then, you know, with, with the development of the Matrescence podcast and our Instagram it’s become clear to us how many other women don’t know it. So. There is a term. It does exist out there, but it’s still not popular and common.

[00:09:25] And that’s really challenging because language is how we connect with one another. So that’s kind of where it came from. 

[00:09:32] Kelly: [00:09:32] Yeah, surprisingly small amount of actual research done on it. Although I must reference, I was listening to the midwives cauldron pro podcast with, uh, Sophie messager and she does make a joke in that podcast around if.

[00:09:49] Uh, w men gave birth that there would be a PhD in postpartum. And that did make me giggle because part of me does wonder and think why, why not? I mean, 50% of our population is female. And of those, the statistic around what percentage are mothers is, is very high. And there’s even evidence to suggest that women who don’t actually give birth.

[00:10:16] Do still go through Matrescence because that process of a transition of a phase of life that still occurs and is triggered by different things. And sometimes it’s mothering of not a human baby. Sometimes it’s mothering of other babies, of, of animals, of, of giving birth to an idea, or it’s a transition of life.

[00:10:35] And one of the reasons we don’t know is because there’s just not enough research. So call to action for the budding scientists out there. If you drop a Trinity to do more research in this, 

[00:10:46] Bree: [00:10:46] for sure. And I think that it speaks to generally a, a wider disinterest in women’s issues in our society and especially mothers issues.

[00:10:55] The fact that we aren’t talking about this, something that so many women go through. And you know, when we talk about who is funding research, it’s, it’s generally not moms and. That’s really, it’s a sad reality that often men are in those positions still where they are deciding who gets research grants and what pro what projects are worth investing in.

[00:11:18] And so I think that that has a large, um, is part of the reason that we haven’t learned more about this. But what is interesting is that doctor Dr. Anthony has talked about it and kind of popularized the term, um, Matrescence like adolescents. I believe it is something quite similar to that. Trying to draw those parallels between the experience of adolescents and Matrescence, and it’s no coincidence that they sound similar.

[00:11:45] They are speaking to the same transition, the Rite of passage, the developmental phase, but adolescence is something that is so well understood in our society. You know, we understand that all humans go through this. Awkward and uncomfortable in gangly experience and emerge with, you know, different interests and hobbies and traits.

[00:12:09] And they are physically and mentally and emotionally different. And I think that that allows us to be empathetic and understanding and supportive of people going through that transition. Whereas Matrescence. We’re not even acknowledging it. So how are we meant to show ourselves that compassion and empathy and kindness and support other people through it?

[00:12:30] If we don’t even have the language to describe what it is, um, 

[00:12:36] Kelly: [00:12:36] which is one of the reasons we brought this to be the Matrescence podcast as a place for the language. To share ideas, our ideas, we don’t claim to be experts on anything because we’re not, but we absolutely want to talk about this feeling for us and give space to, for that acknowledgement as well and, and giving space, you know, when you have, well, certainly I have pre preteen children and whilst I’m not necessarily making excuses for them, There’s it’s really obvious to me that they’re going through a change, but not only that, the society has preconditioned me to be prepared for it to think about the way that I approach them to give them space, to grow into this new role.

[00:13:21] And yet we don’t really have that space in society too. Prepare and create that space and give space to the women in our lives to come into this new role and go through this Matrescence process. And support them as they do that. 

[00:13:40] Bree: [00:13:40] Yeah, for sure. So I guess if, if we bring it back to what is Matrescence at its core, it describes a woman’s transition transition into parenthood.

[00:13:48] So it’s the physical, hormonal, social and emotional transitions that occur when you become a mother. And the cool and interesting thing about this is that it is something that is, um, Recurrent with each child, you have, it begins at conception or pregnancy, or whether you come to motherhood through adoption and it recurs every time you have another baby.

[00:14:12] And there is no set time when Matrescence ends. And some would argue that it’s a lifelong process that as you said, you’re, you’re 12 years down the track and you are still really just beginning to make sense of your experience. And so it can be lifelong. And I think that that is a really important thing to note because we often kind of cap this journey at the end of postpartum, which now society is largely considered to be six weeks.

[00:14:40] And for most parents, like this journey is just beginning. It is so enduring and long. And so there’s often this. Belief that, you know, I’ve had my baby I’m postpartum, you know, that that chapter’s closed, but what we’re experiencing our realities so different to that. And I think understanding Matrescence allows us to make sense of why one year seven year 10 to seven years, 10 years into parenthood, we are still feeling these profound shifts when, within us, not just physically, but emotionally the way we think about the world, our goals.

[00:15:18] They’re all shifting. And I think that that is very similar to adolescents. The experience of our bodies are changing. Our emotions are all over the place. Our hormones are all over the place. And what we emerge as is a new person, and there’s this rationale society to get back to who we were. Prior to having a baby to physically fit back into our old clothes, but also our old lifestyles, our friendship circles, the way our relationship was our career aspirations.

[00:15:54] And that is not the experience for most women. Generally, once we become a mum, we find that all these things have shifted and without understanding why that is. We often make sense of it as if we have failed, you know, we’ve let go of ourselves. We’ve lost our career aspirations, our relationship isn’t as passionate as it used to be.

[00:16:15] And it’s about saying, you will know, it’s not worse. It’s just different. And it’ll continue to evolve and be different in years to come. Yeah, it 

[00:16:23] Kelly: [00:16:23] is quite. Crazy to me now that I think about it is where do we get this sense of going back? I mean, nothing in life goes backwards. It’s a, it’s a one-way street and you just get to make the most of what you can looking forward.

[00:16:36] But I think coming back to that point about having a language and, um, normalizing and encouraging people to look forward, to make peace with their. Life that has been till now and big live to some extent consciously about what are the things that you want to curate for your future, but acknowledged that it is a, it is a Rite of passage that you don’t just go back.

[00:17:00] I mean, no one expects a teenager to say, oh no, I’m done. Thanks. I’m going back to being a 10 year old again, it just doesn’t happen, but we don’t expect it. So why, why as a society, do we expect this of women? So that’s kind of crazy to me now that I think of it. 

[00:17:14] Bree: [00:17:14] But it also makes sense in terms of what we value about women.

[00:17:18] It makes sense that pre-children, we regard them as more valuable, you know, like they are uninterrupted in their careers. Their body are more traditionally bodies are more traditionally attractive. And so. I think it speaks to what we value in our society. But if you, as a mum are going through this thinking that the best has already been, your best version of yourself is behind you.

[00:17:41] It’s a really sad way to walk into 

[00:17:43] Kelly: [00:17:43] motherhood. Yeah, it’s so true. And I don’t really remember. The feeling of it, there’s a lot of unknown. And I think that’s one of the things which to this day, we struggle with that we, we talked very briefly about. I know in another episode is when you are talking to someone who has, is pregnant and, and is about to go into this or expecting to have a child coming into their life, however, that may be.

[00:18:09] Even if you were able to describe to them, some of the things that may happen, some of the things they may feel the transitions, et cetera. I don’t know that they can actually process that at the time. Anyway. So part of it is the storytelling and us continuing to tell stories so that there is a normalizing of, you may feel some of these things or you may not, but it’s your journey and what might be possible because.

[00:18:34] That that’s almost a closed book. It’s whispered behind the doors of, oh, you know, that this happened to you after the, but you know, it’s actually bringing things to the, to the surface and having constructive and positive storytelling. 

[00:18:48] Bree: [00:18:48] Absolutely. And I think, as you said, you can’t. There’s some things that you just have to experience in motherhood to understand them.

[00:18:55] You simply cannot tell someone we wish we could, because you could save them a lot of struggle and pain and heartache. But I think that just planting that seed is important. And if we kind of leave those crumbs for pregnant women, that when they are going through these experiences, they can go, ha maybe this is that thing that they were talking about.

[00:19:14] Maybe this is that Matrescence thing. And. That can just help them to make sense of the journey a little bit more. And they’ll still have to go through that uncomfortable period. I think that’s part of the Rite of passage, but I think that it matters that they have a reference point for what they’re feeling.

[00:19:31] And when we talked about what Matrescence feels like for us, those kinds of common experiences, what we came back to, where things like, you know, changing. Changes in your relationship with yourself and your body and your friends, uh, changes in your career. People suddenly finding that they don’t. Really care about things that used to feel deeply important to them, topics and goals and aspirations.

[00:19:56] And then on the other side of that feeling deeply passionate about things. So, you know, suddenly you care about, um, climate change, because you’re aware that you’re leaving this planet to your child. That’s just one example, but there’s so many, um, You know, physically your body has definitely changed. And, um, your experience experiencing heightened emotions, you know, we all talk about mum guilt, something that we really didn’t feel prior to becoming parents.

[00:20:24] And now just sitting still or doing something nice for yourself can provoke those feelings of guilt. Um, and I guess the big one for us is that, that loss or shift in identity and that feeling of who am I, who am I that now that I’m a mom and also who am I outside of being a mom? Like, who is this woman now, other than just a mom and.

[00:20:51] That’s kind of where this came from was I was asking those questions, but so were you, you know, 12 years down the track and for you, I think it was kind of like, you would just kind of starting to come up for air in your parenting journey and that gave you the time and the space to reflect on and be more intentional, I guess, about this process instead of just being in for the ride to be like, hang on, what is this journey for me?

[00:21:18] And. You know, where do I get to make decisions along the way now that I can process it? Yes, 

[00:21:25] Kelly: [00:21:25] absolutely. And, and in some ways I feel very much like a laggard in reflecting on this because it’s been so powerful for me so far from birthing. Whereas I do think the birth itself or the, you know, the acquiring of a child at that moment is such a.

[00:21:43] Physical representation to society that something has changed. And so in the absence of that so many years on, and me looking back, I realized that I have been going through the motions for many, many years without processing all of that. And I’ve really enjoyed that reflection, but realizing that if you had of asked and many people said this to me before.

[00:22:10] You know, they would feel that I was very successful in both being a working mum and providing for my family and having a career and having the kids. And yet that is absolutely not something that I would have necessarily been able to judge myself on him because I probably felt like I was just going through the motions for a long time.

[00:22:31] So that. I suppose what I’m trying to do, as you say, the timeline, whilst many of our audience and people listen to this will be very fresh in this process. There are others that will be looking at it through a lens much later. Um, and also realizing to be patient because it actually takes different amounts of time for different people to process.

[00:22:55] And one other thing we haven’t talked about is our relationship with our own parents and how we were parented and how that might come up. Hmm. 

[00:23:02] Bree: [00:23:02] And that’s part of Matrescence is that it does bring that up. Okay. Yes. 

[00:23:06] Kelly: [00:23:06] A hundred percent. And especially when you’re, if you have the lucky opportunity to have your parents or, or.

[00:23:14] Parents in law and have access to grandparents. You will see in reflected in the way they behave around your children, their own relationship with their parenting journey, how much guilt they’re still carrying around how much regret or reflection or positive memories and all of these flow over us as these messages of society.

[00:23:34] And, and I think what’s wonderful about Matrescence is it does give us a language and a framework to. Notice how others may be reflecting and ask ourselves important questions about what makes sense and to share. I think sharing is a huge part of this podcast, sharing our stories, our thoughts, encouraging others, to share theirs in an attempt to add a language and stories that can be shared and passed down to normalize this transition.

[00:24:04] This really important transition. Absolutely. 

[00:24:06] Bree: [00:24:06] And as you said earlier for you, those early days of parenting were very robotic. Um, and I guess for me, it wasn’t a sense too, and kind of the common theme between our journeys. Once we started speaking about them, honestly, was, was these feelings of Discontentment and questioning.

[00:24:27] And I think that. In our society. We don’t make space for that at all. You’re, you’re either a mother that is thriving and loves her kids and is passionate and maternal and invested, or you’re a bad mom. Or the other explanation that we do offer women is postnatal depression. And what happens is that I think that a lot of women are misdiagnosed with postnatal depression.

[00:24:49] Or they reach out to mental health professionals and say, Hey, I’m experiencing these things and they don’t quite fit the diagnostic criteria for postnatal depression. So then what are we left thinking? You know, okay, I’m just a bad mom. I, I literally just suck at this. I’m not cut out for it. I’m not maternal.

[00:25:08] And that is exactly what I felt. I was in a way, seeking a diagnosis of. Postnatal depression, anger and anxiety, because the experience was not what I thought it would be. I had days where I really questioned if I was cut out for parenthood. And if I had made the right decision by choosing to have a baby, this, this little person that we wanted so much, and then I was sitting there questioning, you know, what have I done?

[00:25:35] And I think that that is why it is so important to speak, honestly. About our experiences and to have the language, to describe it, to go, Hey, this is messy and uncomfortable and I don’t quite know what I’m doing and it doesn’t really make sense, but that is an experience in itself. It’s not that I’m doing it wrong.

[00:25:56] It’s just kind of part of it. 

[00:25:58] Kelly: [00:25:58] Um, and such an interesting point there that in the absence of a diagnosis and the absence of saying it’s okay, we understand what’s happening because you’ve got blah, blah, blah. Yeah, the only other option is, well, I must be doing it wrong. I must be failing. It must just be me if there’s not something outside.

[00:26:16] And whilst talking about it is incredibly important for creating empathy and creating opportunities to, to share. It’s also around solidarity in terms of supporting and encouraging each other through periods of times where sometimes there is no. Answer. There is no way out except through. And though that solidarity of saying.

[00:26:42] And you’ve said it before a number of times in posts, just because it’s hard. It doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong. And I think that’s so powerful. Yeah, 

[00:26:50] Bree: [00:26:50] absolutely. And I think that that is our default. What’s wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? And I think that Matrescence just frames it as. It’s a beautifully, messy, challenging time in our lives.

[00:27:01] And when we are able to name it and define it, we can make sense of our experiences and support others to do the same. And I think that that is, that’s kind of the whole point of this is saying, Hey, this is our experience. And here’s the language. If you want to talk about your experience. And I think that that is.

[00:27:20] So powerful. And so underrated is just speaking about motherhood openly, and honestly, but that’s hard to do, as he said, when we’re coming from this position of, well, I’m not thriving, so I must be a bad mum or depressed. I think if we open up that conversation too, I am somewhere in the middle. Like not thriving, not loving it, but you know, I’m doing it.

[00:27:40] I’m, I’m, I’m getting through it. I’m navigating the challenges and I’m in it right now, but it will get better. I think that it allows us to do that because it takes the shame away and the stigma and allows us to find solidarity in our stories and sharing with one another. And, 

[00:27:58] Kelly: [00:27:58] and it’s our own becoming.

[00:28:00] We are becoming all the time. We’re becoming Al F. Our future selves and that not looking back, but actually acknowledging the past, acknowledging the challenges and living, trying to live in the moment whilst planning for the future, which is all things which are not unique to motherhood. It’s just that those become much harder for us to have a healthy relationship with that during a period of such intensity as this.

[00:28:27] So that’s, what’s what is wonderful about. Matrescence 

[00:28:32] Bree: [00:28:32] absolutely. And I think in terms of my journey and where I’m at is I started to, well, and I’ve spoken to, I speak about this in later episodes. I started to feel really overwhelmed by the prospect of having another baby, because my eyes had been opened.

[00:28:45] I knew how hard and messy it was, but without this language, I just assumed that I was a failure. I was bad at motherhood. I may be experienced postnatal, depression, and anxiety. And so the decision to go back and have another baby felt incredibly overwhelming to me and. Part of learning about Matrescence has been understanding that, okay, it is going to be messy again, next time.

[00:29:09] And it’s going to be hard and it will test me, but I will emerge from it a more aligned, more authentic, more empowered. Yeah. And version of myself. So firstly, not feeling sorry, overwhelmed going into having another baby because I know what I’m in for. And that it is part of the process. It’s not that I’m doing it wrong.

[00:29:28] And secondly that, Hey, this is actually a good thing. It’s going to be uncomfortable, but it’s leading to something great. And kind of flipping that narrative of everything’s going to get worse. My best has already been, and I’m just going to suffer too. It’s going to be uncomfortable and then it will be pretty magical and also learning and making sense of myself as a person outside of a mother.

[00:29:53] And Matrescence has given me permission, understanding matricis understanding Matrescence has given me permission to do that, to understand that motherhood is a huge part of this journey, but it’s just one part and who we are as women is the other part. And we get to. Explore that, and that’s part of the podcast for us is kind of going, Hey, wait, we are women as well as mothers.

[00:30:18] And this is something that we’re passionate 

[00:30:19] Kelly: [00:30:19] about. Yeah. I love that. And especially considering that, right now, we are finishing off this particular podcast at a point where you are 40. Plus one yes. Weeks pregnant. So the gestation of this podcast and the baby are reasonably aligned. I think that the podcast has been going a little bit longer, and I think that wonderful alignment of giving birth to something has been part of our process.

[00:30:49] And now Matrescence journeys. This is so important for us to have created curated and now be able to share with people. What, some of our stories and throughout those stories, you will hear different periods of time reflected on you’ll hear different gestations of Brie during her pregnancy as we’ve recorded this through.

[00:31:12] Bree: [00:31:12] Yes. I think our next podcast episode, we’re going to jump to me being five weeks pregnant. So we’re going right back in time. 

[00:31:19] Kelly: [00:31:19] But, uh, the important thing about recording this at the end, it was that you’re getting the benefit of the beginning of. Why we went on this journey and coming full circle to exploring season one, being a taster of a number of relatable parts of our journey so far.

[00:31:38] And the season two will really include another phase of that as we’ll go deeper into different segments and different ideas. But the season one, we would really love to hear your feedback. We want to hear. What, what did you love? What do you want to hear more of? And. That will help us as well to bring to the four great guests and ideas that will assist to keep this conversation going of this primary goal of the language and the solidarity for others who are embarking on or reflecting on their journey of absolutely 

[00:32:14] Bree: [00:32:14] emo.

[00:32:15] We don’t speak about Matrescence. With the term in every episode, all the episodes are Matrescence, it is all encompassing. So we speak to relationships, our relationship with ourself and our body and our birth. And that in itself is Matrescence. So while we don’t directly address it in every episode, it’s there in the stories and in the hindsight and the wisdom that we gain along the way.

[00:32:38] So we have very much tried to explore a wide variety of topics to make sure that it is. Accessible and inclusive to everybody. And we are very much looking forward to diving in and listening and hearing your feedback about what you want to hear more about. 

[00:32:54] Kelly: [00:32:54] Absolutely. And as always, please share this with anyone who you think it might help.

[00:33:02] Thanks for joining us for today’s conversation. If you want to hear more like this, don’t forget to hit subscribe. So you don’t miss an episode. If you’d like to know more about anything. What about what you heard on the podcast today? Check out our website. http://www.com.edu. You can find us on Instagram at Matrescence dot podcast, or send us an email to info@birthofamother.com.

[00:33:27] Bree: [00:33:27] If you think others could benefit from this podcast, take a screenshot of you listening to this episode, to post on your social media and tag us. Alternatively, consider leaving a review with your favorite things about the Matrescence. This really helps us to increase our visibility and it surely, uh, reaching as many women as possible.

[00:33:45] As always thank you for spending your time with us. We hope you will tune in next time.

Kelly and Bree


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